Scottish teachers pay offer

[GneissGuysFinishLast]

AIBU to think that it’s not really an improved offer, and that 12% over 2 years is overall a worse deal than 10% in one year, and that they are only making this offer to delay strikes?

(reported on BBC News here: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64642699)

@FamilyLife2point4

It is possible to do all that and still be sceptical of the teachers are the cleverest/hardest worked/worst off narrative

My union are putting it to a ballot, but at this point I think I'll reject it.

@Botw1 i don’t see that narrative though. They are campaigning for better pay. It seems to me as if other professions want to compare and gripe because teachers unions have actively fought year after year just to match inflation.

The reports in the news of teachers being verbally and physically assaulted with little consequences for the wee souls that do it - I believe it - no-one deserves to go to their work scared of what they’ll face and forced to stay in it. Do I also believe it’s far more widespread than reported, yes, yes I do - kids talk.

is this comparable to any other profession - no it’s not, so why are comparisons even raised in the first place?
Could folk choose teaching over nursing if they wanted the unpaid summer holidays where most resorts cost triple - yes they could have, or they could re-train - so why moan about it / raise it? Teachers do not get a say in the amount of unpaid holidays they have to take but they knew it was a job perk (or downside as it’s 6 weeks they can’t work) so why do others gripe at this? Do it if you want it - don’t if you don’t - but don’t ‘have a go’ at others for their job perks when they are simply demanding that they arent penalised due to inflation (which isnt their fault either).

Sorry are you saying that teachers being abused at work isn't comparable to any other profession?

Ie it's unique to teaching?

Because that's a perfect example if you are, but maybe I'm misreading

@LoopyGremlin fair enough. At a real term pay cut of ~10% over 2 years, I genuinely don’t think I’d be chuffed at that either.

I can completely see other folks point about teachers looking greedy to the vegetal public given the % other professions have accepted / been offered but others have accepted these offers and the teachers have not.
That’s their right to hold out for more - why should they effectively accept a pay cut, why should anyone (others shouldn’t be bitter their unions have rolled over for less - I suggest they switch unions to one that won’t) Teachers will lose salary for strike days but I personally believe that’s worth it for them. They should hold out for what they are worth which is at the very least not to suffer a pay cut!

*general public

@Botw1 the point is - no professional job is comparable and teachers do have their genuine struggles, so why is anyone trying to compare professions that ain’t comparable!

Exactly this!!! do an equivalent role in public sector and even if the teachers took 6% this year they would be paid 2-3000 more per year than me. My job is extremely stressful often working long hours with half the holidays of teachers.
I feel unions are holding working parents to ransom and I’d be shocked if they get what they ask for because they will then have to pay the rest of pub sector who cannot fight on a pay grade basis so lower paid workers jumped at 10%. Others like myself got 5% like it or not.
my child will miss 11days of school in 20 due to hols and strike action it’s so unsettling. I am fortunate enough to have childcare around. Lower paid single parents are being hit the worst and vulnerable kids

@FamilyLife2point4

Can you clarify what you meant by

'The reports in the news of teachers being verbally and physically assaulted with little consequences for the wee souls that do

is this comparable to any other profession - no it’s not,'

Did you mean that it didn't happen in other roles? If not what did you mean?

People compare (as has been explained more than once) because that's how we determine value.

And the easiest way to do that is to compare to your own situation

It happens on any discussion about wages and even wealth

Teachers do not get a say in the amount of unpaid holidays they have to take but they knew it was a job perk (or downside as it’s 6 weeks they can’t work)

So teachers don’t take on additional work during the holidays marking exams?

*'The reports in the news of teachers being verbally and physically assaulted with little consequences for the wee souls that do

is this comparable to any other profession - no it’s not,'*

You think teachers are the only people who get verbally and physically abused at work, and have to continue working with the people who abused them? Seriously?

@Jellycatspyjamas primary teachers can’t mark, maybe tutor. Secondary needs apply, only so many places available etc - it’s not as cut and dry as picking up a shift as overtime

@Jellycatspyjamas and @Botw1 as per my previous post - the point was that what teachers have to deal with is crap too - what they can face from under 18s daily whilst trying to instil values and education in them, is not comparable to any other professional role - so why compare, unless you’re just bitter about your own situation.
We should all be in support of each other - but instead it’s as if some people are just trying to ‘pick at something / anything’.

Oh and if you need something to pick at / a finger to point - again I’ll ask:

WHO’S FAULT IS IT?

Westminster - get pissed at them for running the country into the ground!

@FamilyLife2point4

But it is comparable?

To lots of roles. Tons.

Why say its not?

And again, as Ive said repeatedly

I do blame Westminster

I also support the strikes and think teachers pay should be competitive and in line with other public sector roles.

That doesn't meaning I think teaching or how teachers come across is above criticism.

I don't think any role is

@Botw1 i don’t believe being a police officer is the same as a fireman, or a nurse the same as a social worker - their jobs are not comparable.
Do they have aspects, like perhaps admin, that intersect all roles, yes, does that make them comparable - no.

@FamilyLife2point4

Theyre not the same no

But you said other roles don't face abuse so they're not comparable?

Which is obviously not true.

A hedge fund manager isn't comparable to a nurse either but I can still say one deserves their wage and one doesn't

@Botw1 i did not say other roles do not face abuse at all.
I imagine a police officer taking abuse from a gang of full grown men is far far worse, for example.

@Botw1 ive explained twice what I meant - it’s as if you are deliberately trying to twist it!

I'm honestly not.

You said teachers face abuse and that's not comparable with other roles

Im not sure what else you could have meant

You used abuse of staff to prove how teaching isn't comparable to other roles

Proving my point that some teachers think teaching is worst off

I said ‘no roles are comparable’ and teachers get their fair share of crap as evidenced in the news.

Example used: is the police getting abused from a gang of drunk full grown men the same as teachers from under 18’s - I imagine not. The point being - the roles are not comparable.

The real gripe seems to be that teachers striking has a bigger impact on society than, for instance, nurses striking (unless you’re unfortunate enough to be I’ll / ilk relative / waiting an op etc) but for most healthy people, it’s probably not impacted them much. Teachers striking has a knock on for lots of folk including grandparents/ aunties etc getting called in for childcare, the inconvenience or cost to parents etc. the govt count on the public getting annoyed at this and turning on teachers.
Don’t buy into their narrative!

The usual bollocks.
Teachers don't think this. They often defend themselves though against the "always on holiday/work9-3/not the "real world" brigade though.

We're only allowed to strike about pay.