People on good wages saying they are struggling

[ChopSuey2]

Am I being unreasonable to be annoyed by people on good wages saying they are struggling?

I am not talking about people who have good wages but are paying off large debts or whose childcare leaves them broke, but people who say they can't afford to live on a certain amount but actually have a decent or even lots of money left after essentials. Equally, people whose essentials (food shopping and heating particularly) are ludicrously high (not including those with high costs related to disability).

I really feel like people need to read the room. People are genuinely struggling and saying you can't afford to live on a good wage is insensitive.

I'm not sure if it's relevant but I would consider myself to be on a good wage (not a higher tax payer and in London).

YABU - people can say they can't afford to live on a good wage because it's all relative
YANBU - people need to think about what being unable to afford things really means

Our in laws are all unemployed while myself and dh work and dh has a decently paying job. It gets very lonely never having anyone to confide in- we were poor poor for years (student loans and childcare and an apartment we couldn’t sell) but in laws insisted because we owned and dh was working we had no idea what being poor was and we should just learn to be better with money. Now we’re better off if we even mention bills we get jumped on about how lucky we are.

I think this is very short sighted. It's not always easy to downsize, that is potentially a long term fix but doesn't help with bills this month or next. Large mortgages go up even more with the mortgage rate % going up so can have a huge effect. People do live to their means, I don't believe that many people who earn decent money buy the smallest house they can fit in with their family and the oldest car they can find, why would they.

We had a fair amount of leeway a few years ago, we knew if the odd bill went up we would be fine but would maybe have to cut back on luxuries, thats fine, however covid hit and DH was made redundant and took a £10k pay cut. He has actually had a rise since then (still less than before) and we are worse off that when he first took the £10k cut. We are ok but things are really tight right now and whilst we do have some luxury bills they are not things we can stop straight away (Y10 child in private school). I am a very forward planner but I didn't foresee that this last couple of years would happen. We are also at a point where we are having to pay towards FILs care home fees so another expense we weren't expecting.

I would never complain as we do have good salaries but it's very unimaginative to think that people on higher salaries aren't affected.

Everybody is entitled to the welfare safety net. Even wealthy people who find themselves in the circumstances of those on welfare then become entitled to welfare too.

I suppose, yes, technically YANBU to say that people who might be having to limit their non-essential or luxury spending more than they used to do to the cost of living shouldn't over exaggerate their circumstances and say they 'can't afford to live.'

However, this has to be with the caveat that the same applies to exaggerating in any other circumstance when others may be struggling more - e.g. a childless person shouldn't comment on how exhausted they are to friends with young kids, skinny people shouldn't discuss how hard they find it to lose weight, retired people shouldn't moan about how busy they are and would love to do x/y/z in front of people working full time, someone with flu shouldn't comment on how ill they feel to a colleague with cancer, etc. etc. You could probably make the case for all of these but it would be a bit restrictive and go against human nature, which is to center ourselves and our own experiences, and, yes, often exaggerate!

It does annoy me when people make the argument that well earning people might have less money spare because of their 'essential' outgoings and then list outgoings that are entirely discretionary/luxuries (like big mortgages on giant houses and private schooling) so on that part I agree with you.

@buildingourdreams I didn't, I don't think

We are doing okay thanks to child benefit, CTCs and SCP. Without those we would really struggle with COL.

Quite. But they shouldn’t be moaning about the cost of living when the real problem is they can’t afford the cost of their lifestyle. There is a difference.

Context is key here.

Someone on an above average / high wage complaining about costs to their friend who is on a similar or higher wage is reasonable and acceptable.

I'm a single mum of 2 on 21k and I receive a small amount of UC. It grates on me a lot when my boss who is on 55k complains to me that he hasn't had a rise in a couple of years. Or my colleague who is on 38k, her husband earns 100k, and they own about 4 houses, said recently "80k doesn't get you much these days".

People live to their means.

Like it or not if you've been living comfortably or well off on your salary then get to this year and are struggling to make ends meet (let's not forget most of these people will still have mortgages, credit card bills, car finances etc) then yes it is acceptable to moan and worry

This is an interesting one. I'd genuinely love to know what "high earner" is in the eyes of the OP.

I am no longer entitled to child benefit at all because of my income (no, nor even after pension contributions) but a couple jointly earning a considerable amount more than me are entitled to it. I don't think that's fair.

There's also another factor to "struggling" for higher earners that I used to see all the time when I worked in debt management. It wasn't uncommon to see high earners having financial commitments that meant they are spending all their income and not factoring in a buffer of any sort, so if a change of circumstances happened they were no less able to keep up with their financial lives than someone struggling to pay the gas bill on a low income. But they would generally have high mortgages and always cars on credit, usually other debts because they used the higher income to service more minimum payments - and more often than not would refuse to hear that their lifestyle choices were the cause of their financial woes. And they would be loathe to give up the trappings that made them feel like they had "made it" (see also: cars on credit, it was always the cars that were the killer and the bone of contention).

I count myself lucky now as I learned a lesson from that job, so as my income has increased over the last few years with promotions I haven't moved house even though we live somewhere small, I bought an almost new but modest car outright and I made sure most of my new "extra" earnings remained surplus income. Sometimes spent, sometimes saved.

So now although I find CoL increases annoying, I also know I'm lucky to be able to absorb it. I also don't complain about it as I know that would be insensitive.

But I wish people would stop judging me for being able to afford to go on holiday multiple times a year if I choose to (and I do!) Your chose a big house and fancy car, I chose to travel!

Everyone is getting robbed atm. Instead of infighting over pennies on the grand scheme of things, we need to all stick together and lambast the real culprits.

This. Those who are responsible for the current COL and doing precious little to fix it must be thrilled that the public are turning on each other rather than railing against the Government, profiteering energy firms and tax-dodging corporations. This is exactly what they want.

Yabu. We have a good household income but can't afford to heat our house properly and are really worried about the mortgage rate when we come off our fixed rate in December. Our mortgage is £1400 a month currently - it's not a fancy house, a standard 3 bed terrace with loft extension. It's old and drafty and needs lots of work doing to it, we couldn't sell it in its current condition and buy anywhere better for less (better as in less drafty and cheaper). Our childcare is £1200 a month. We drive a 10yo car that really needs replacing. The house is freezing and last month's energy bill was £460. Our clothes aren't drying properly and are starting to smell damp. So yeah, I'll complain.

It may not seem like it to many lower earners but the squeeze on middle class discretionary spending is a massive problem for lots of people in our economy, including many low earners who work in retail, leisure and services.

Sure, people can spend less by lowering their living standards but that does mean spending less in the retail, leisure and services sectors. You don't have to feel sorry for these people of course, but it does matter economically that this group of people are struggling to maintain their lifestyles. They are not huge hoarders of wealth like the very rich.

100% agree with this!

So you're saying that, despite the fact that the increase in our fixed household costs now equal 20% of my wages (yes just the increase), I'm not allowed to moan because I have a bigger house and a bigger car. That I've chosen that lifestyle and therefore I need to suck up the fact that actually we can't afford to heat the house?

YANBU we earn £100k a year (gross, two salaries) and yes it's annoying to pay so much gas and electric and we're cutting back on trips and cheaper nights out but we can still do those things. For what it's worth I'm from a working class family where I grew up on fsm so I know what having nothing is like and £100k a year isn't it.

We are a relatively "good income" family but really struggling as we live in an expensive area, huge mortgage, house upkeep, big bills, massive childcare costs (because we both work full time), commuting costs, etc etc and I have just been diagnosed with a serious longterm condition, so the rising costs of living are pretty terrifying for us. And we have only had three holidays in the past 8 years (neither abroad) and are not big spenders.
And it really wouldn't be that easy, nor affordable for us to just move homes and uproot our lives and kids. I think things are hard for most people at the moment.

I'm sure they could find something to sell if they had to.

Struggling to fund their "lifestyle" in some cases, not struggling to make ends meet. But definitely should be aware of their surroundings when making comments. We are in the £100k bracket, also been in the -£0 bracket and could afford a meal. Wouldn't dream of mentioning our income, how we live, posting nice things to FB. It's extremely insensitive. We've worked damn hard and long hours studying for what we have, it doesn't give us the right to make someone feel bad about not being able to feed their family this week.

This! I really feel that this government have stolen from us all. Our money and our children’s futures and opportunities.

Ah yes all those antique pieces of furniture and diamonds we're hoarding. Maybe a child?

I do agree with what you’re saying but on the other side…

me and my partners both work anywhere between 45-60 hour weeks EACH. (We don’t see each other working opposite shifts because of child care). We both have good progressional jobs that took a lot of years to get where we are.

if we work full time plus 2-3 extras a week each. Why shouldn’t we be able to moan about not being able to afford a good life? A holiday?a decent food shop? We work well above full time. We SHOULD easily be able to live (well). But yet we can’t ?!
so yes I am moaning because who chooses to work 60 hour weeks (100-120 hour weeke combined) to just pay the bills and nothing else left for any extra luxuries in life ?

and yes I am aware people have it worse. But I have a friend that refuses to work. Is very much ok and intellliegnt to peruse a career but refuses to but can still afford an all inclusive holiday abroad each year. Can’t help but feel I’m going wrong somewhere in life ….

Unfortunately lots of people will still think that you shouldn't be able to do well financially when there are other people well off. There are also things to take into account like student loans, cost of professional exams, professional memberships that all come along with higher salaries, and like you say often long hours, DH and I regularly work up to 14 hr days . You should be able to have spare money etc when working those sorts of hours, essentially that is the only reason most people work like that.

And yes I agree there are lots of people worse off of course but it's not a race to the bottom.

Such as? I don't think my worn shoes would garner much interest from the foot fetishists!

Haven’t rtft here but kind of feels like you have a specific person in mind.

Otherwise what you’re saying is that it’s annoying when people who are not struggling say that they are. How many people lie like that? Have you got a bee in your bonnet about somebody in particular?