People on good wages saying they are struggling

[ChopSuey2]

Am I being unreasonable to be annoyed by people on good wages saying they are struggling?

I am not talking about people who have good wages but are paying off large debts or whose childcare leaves them broke, but people who say they can't afford to live on a certain amount but actually have a decent or even lots of money left after essentials. Equally, people whose essentials (food shopping and heating particularly) are ludicrously high (not including those with high costs related to disability).

I really feel like people need to read the room. People are genuinely struggling and saying you can't afford to live on a good wage is insensitive.

I'm not sure if it's relevant but I would consider myself to be on a good wage (not a higher tax payer and in London).

YABU - people can say they can't afford to live on a good wage because it's all relative
YANBU - people need to think about what being unable to afford things really means

Fairly big house. But also just before Covid we knocked a wall down, opened up to the conservatory and put in lovely underfloor electric heating as the main heat source for the main living area… but since then the cost of running it has become astronomical so we don’t use it 🙈
In the long term the answer will have to be putting some walls back or knocking down the old conservatory and rebuilding it… but of course that is no longer really affordable either!

I know people who are incredibly well off, have hundreds of thousands in the bank, no mortgage and little outgoings yet they are worried about rising costs and energy bills. In fact they are a lot more frugal than those I know who have average income and no savings. Just because you have money doesn't necessarily mean you are willing to spend it easily. It is not the same thing as worrying that you might not be able to heat your home or feed your family but it is natural for us all to be alarmed by huge increases in costs.

50k is considered a low income? Blimey I run my (single adult) household on 32k and I don’t feel poor! Just cut your cloth accordingly. I know I can’t afford to live in a posh area, go on expensive holidays or run a car. These things are not essential! And yes OP it annoys me too, some people have absolutely no idea. There are so many people worse off than me, I feel extremely fortunate at the moment.

This. Exactly this.

It is all relative.

I find your OP insensitive in a way because you seem completely blind to the fact that people on middle or even higher incomes can face very real financial struggles as well.

It's about your earnings in proportion to your outgoings - not just your earnings.

People on a good income are entitled to moan if they like - but they need to realise they are moaning about inconvenience, and things being less nice for them in the main. As such they shouldn't imagine their problems are in any way comparable to not being able to provide themselves or their families with decent/secure living conditions and food.

The "it's all relative" thing pisses me off. People might be "struggling to maintain their lifestyle" but if they didn't include a contingency plan for all that should the shit hit the fan, then they probably couldn't afford them in the first place.

Indeed @rexythedinosaur I think the term is 'squeezed middle' and that's certainly how it feels.

Agree with @Bodybarnet . People don't tend to strive and work their bollocks off to live in the cheapest house in the cheapest area and drive the cheapest car. It smacks a bit of schadenfreude to sneer at people in large houses who may now be paying hundreds more than they were in mortgage repayments, utilities and commuting costs.

All of this has really made me rethink our finances and i'm far less likely to move or extend our house now because I'm so worried about the cost of borrowing. It's meant having to accept that some of the big reasons I've worked to progress in my career may never happen now.

By this definition, only people on the poverty line can actually be classed as struggling, which is just nonsense.

But they chose those bigger houses and bigger cars and have scope to downsize

It's not easy. but it can be done. We lived in a 3 bed house and we moved to a 2 bed house because my dad was unemployed. The house was in the same village, so no change to my school. My parents got rid of the mortgage that way and my dad did then find another job as well.

I agree with the OP that people need a sense of perspective - not being able to put the heating on is a bit different to not being able to afford the ski-ing holiday or downsizing the car to something cheaper.

People on good incomes might still have student loans, pension contributions, car payments/maintenance/repairs/fuel (and they need a car for work) so actually their disposable income isn't that high once all of that's taken into account. Plus they won't be eligible for help like cost of living payments, council tax reductions and other benefits.

With rising costs, anything more than a basic lifestyle is getting to be unaffordable for most, and those used to luxuries will wonder why they've bothered studying/progressing in their careers if all they can afford is basic goods.

People have struggled long before this COL crisis or covid came along, I'm one of them.
By and large, because 'middle earners' did ok and could afford a decent life, and because it suited the government, the general attitude was that struggling was somehow a failure on the part of the person or the family and down to lack of responsibility and poor choices, lack of hard work and laziness, preferring reliance on 'hand outs', based on misinformation about things like social housing being 'free' and benefits being massively generous.
I think those middle earners (and yes I'm generalising) genuinely thought that their 'hard work and sacrifice' was the reason they didn't struggle, and anyone who did just didn't work hard enough or weren't willing to sacrifice anything they wanted. They were insulated against it by their own good choices - and they're realising that it's not all about that.

Now I think there's a realisation that good choices, hard work and sacrifice don't insulate you against struggling to survive and so many are struggling with that realisation, that and the belief that because of that hard work, good choices and sacrifice, the struggle is somehow different to what people on lesser incomes have faced for far longer, that it's not fair, that they deserve the better things because they worked hard.

Well the reality is, hard work and sacrifice don't guarantee a decent standard of living, there's many more factors involved.

Well I'd say that in your situation you could still legitimately say you were 'struggling'.

You were still struggling to afford your lifestyle and had to downsize your entire life, which is a bloody big wrench.

Were you on the poverty line? No. But it doesn't mean you're not allowed to say life was difficult for you!

What should concern us all is that when people do cut back on the non essentials such as meals out with the family, days out with the kids in half term, buying sandwiches or coffees out, haircuts etc this has a knock on effect for the businesses and ultimately peoples jobs. We are a service driven economy of people stop spending we are all in deep trouble.

Of course I can't because there are too many variables but, for example, if you're a single person with no kids or debts and have £1000 after housing costs then I think you might need to have a think about what not being able to afford to live means.

Yes, some of these posts sound like they've no understanding that people often have credit.

25 years ago for younger couples with kids it was normal for half the family income to go on the mortgage. Young people nowadays are having to adjust to the normal reality of interest rates being more normal.

E.g. in 1998 the starter house 2 up 2 down might cost £500 a month to rent or mortgage and the husbands wage was this amount. In 2023 the same house would only cost £1000 a month at 7% mortgage rate but wages are far higher, way more than double.

The starter graduate salary now averages £30k, my first job in the NHS in the 90s after education was about £10k.

Houses have tripled in price but so have salaries.

Having kids is nothing to do with it. It’s not right to just say people without kids or who are single have it easier. Kids are a choice, and a partner (usually) means splitting bills, so less costly.

How do people know what debts friends and family are in anyway. I would say never assume.

Shutting down peoples voice and viewpoints is never good.

People have only themselves to blame with credit.

Rich people whining is one thing we probably all agree is crass. I didn't go ahead with our usual family break this February, no big deal on the face of it but that's a hotel that has lost, a taxi driver or two, the restaurant we would have visited, the shops we would have used etc So who gets that money? British Gas and Halifax ffs The conversations need to be had. I don't know the answer though.

Salaries have absolutely not kept pace with the cost of housing.

Graduate starter salary at £30k as the average? Maybe in STEM only, even so, that's seems a high figure

This is a pretty stupid take given that most people can't own a home without a mortgage.

YABU. What gives you the right to decide what qualifies as struggling?

Specifically you give the example of high childcare costs making it ok to complain about cost of living. Having a child is a choice so it's no less valid than choosing to go on a nice expensive holiday that has shot up in price and complaining about that instead.