People on good wages saying they are struggling

[ChopSuey2]

Am I being unreasonable to be annoyed by people on good wages saying they are struggling?

I am not talking about people who have good wages but are paying off large debts or whose childcare leaves them broke, but people who say they can't afford to live on a certain amount but actually have a decent or even lots of money left after essentials. Equally, people whose essentials (food shopping and heating particularly) are ludicrously high (not including those with high costs related to disability).

I really feel like people need to read the room. People are genuinely struggling and saying you can't afford to live on a good wage is insensitive.

I'm not sure if it's relevant but I would consider myself to be on a good wage (not a higher tax payer and in London).

YABU - people can say they can't afford to live on a good wage because it's all relative
YANBU - people need to think about what being unable to afford things really means

I think the main issue here is your friends talking about how much money they have. I find it incredibly crass to discuss money. As has been posted, everyone’s circumstances are different, but I often find it’s a ‘humble brag’ to discuss money this way.

I earn more than my friends and family, but I would never dream of discussing that. No one knows what I earn except my partner. Yes the cost of living has meant that we have less money left over, but we are very lucky to still be able to buy the food we want and heat our home. I know others aren’t so fortunate.

It's also about what you consider normal. Having spent years at uni or doing post graduate work I would very upset if we couldn't afford a holiday (we are choosing to use minimal gas on moral ground because of Russia). Our pay is in effect controlled by a government monopoly so we either grow our side hussle, accept a falling standard of living or go do a completely different job.

I’m sick of reading ‘read the room’. There are almost as many rooms as there a people. If someone is being insensitive or malicious, fair enough, but not everyone is experiencing the cost of living crisis in the same way. And none of us knows what challenges other people are facing, unless you know them intimately.

It's about outgoings. Most people on high salaries don't do the work in order not to enjoy the benefits (and yes, I know lower salary people work hard too). So yes, you can certainly be on a high salary and still struggling. And yes, of course you can change your lifestyle, but downsizing/changing schools etc are stressful upheavals that may well leave you unhappier. It would be a struggle.

Of course you should mind who you moan to about it. But it's not unreasonable for good earners to feel a pinch too.

I’m not one for lending money to anyone I’m afraid. It’s the quickest way to end/definitely change a friendship in my opinion.

“Never a lender or a borrower be” is my motto now, that’s what credit cards etc are for.

im glad u are in a much better situation now.

It seems like you’re suggesting anyone living above the poverty line should be permanently jolly.

If I live in a one bed apartment with three kids I am allowed to have a moan to my friends about space/costs/food/noise ect.

Equally, if I live in a stately home with an only child, I am allowed to complain to my friends about the leaky roof/how hard it is to heat rooms with high ceilings/the fact we’re not allowed to put up solar panels ect.

Everyone has stuff going on that isn’t ideal/costs more than we’d like it to/is a pain in the bum. We share these things with our friends, along with the good stuff that’s going on, because that’s what people talk about.

Being friends with someone you is aboit offeting mutual support, regardless of whether you’re experiencing the same problems as each other. If you can’t empathise with a friend having a moan about something, when they’ve listened to you have a moan about something that wasn’t directly relevant to them before, then it’s time to walk away from the friendship.

YANBU OP, YA definitely NBU

Many years ago DH and I were properly struggling. As in hand-to-mouth struggling. We'd get new credit cards just to put food shopping on them. My DH had freelance work and was used to jobs coming and going, but there was a long long period with zero work, I then lost my regular freelance gig, and we had a child and a mortgage, but no income or savings. He said we shouldn't sign up for benefits as he would get work any day, but then didn't for a long long time. It nearly broke me. I felt suicidal at times.

I'd chat to one of my friends who'd say 'yes we're broke too' and then in the next breath talk about the restaurants they'd been to or the holidays they were planning. I've never ever forgiven that friend. It was so insensitive.

I don't think you can fully understand unless you've been truly desperate.

Generally higher income families can cut down/back to some degree. Those on lower incomes have nowhere to go apart from credit cards loans and overdrafts that they have no way of paying back in thos current situation.
When you live payday to payday with no savings, that is struggling.

Depends what they are struggling with. If they can't afford a couple of holidays abroad each year,or an expensive top-of-the range car,or eating out in pricey restaurants every week,then no,I wouldn't say that was struggling,as to my mind,they are luxuries,not essentials. If they are struggling to pay their rent/mortgage,or their fuel bills,or putting petrol in their car,then yes,I would say that was struggling.

OP YANBU but will not be told that here. Lots of people who do not realise that a lot of their spend is discretionary. Yes you have to cut down on some things, thats life.

Not really, because you typically can't adjust your outgoings at short notice.

So if you could once afford your mortgage, but lose your job or have a slight pay cut or inflation combined with the increased mortgage costs hits, you can't suddenly downsize and move to a smaller house...

so you may have a good salary but still be struggling.

I don’t like to judge as I know nothing about peoples situations. We are on a good wage but not what you’d class as high earners. Our mortgage goes up just over £300 in a couple of months, as we are at the end of our fixed mortgage payments, we don’t know how we are going to afford it, as everything else has risen and our wages don’t stretch far enough. If we lose our home, we also don’t know where we’ll end up, rental won’t be affordable for us and there is a long wait for social housing.

I wonder if this is about @magicmondays thread

The squeezed middle is a massive thing at the moment. In theory we are high earners, we bring in £70K between us gross. But the amount we take home is approx £42K due to ridiculous pension contributions, student loans, tax, NI etc.

Add up £15K mortgage, average council tax of £1.5K, £14K childcare fees, £3.5K bills, insurances, contracts etc, we have £6K a year for everything else. That's £500 a month for food, toiletries, clothes, uniforms, petrol etc for a family of 4. We can barely save, no chance of a holiday. We save every penny because we're worried about anything breaking because if the boiler goes or car needs big fixes we are going to struggle. We're not the worst off by any stretch but well above the threshold for help and there isn't much left over.

That's not a high household income at all so OP wouldnt judge you for moaning I imagine

I'd suggest not talking about finances if you find it triggering, if people start just say you don't want to talk about it. It's not a competition, people who live above the poverty line are allowed to feel like they're struggling if they are.

People need to be sensitive to others, although we do have free speech in the UK so are allowed to moan on line if we like. I expect no sympathy for last month's £1300 gas/electricity bill as I have a reasonable net income after massive taxes.

Our household income is way lower than the ones on here. We manage because we cut our cloth. If you have a large income but cant manage a rise in mortgage rates, you over stretched yourself.

I agree OP for what it’s worth. I think some people are insensitive by saying they are struggling when what they really mean is they are having to watch their costs and budget differently now. Very different to actually having to rely on food banks, being afraid to put the heating on, limiting showers and eating plain bread for 2 days before pay day.

My DH and I have a decent household income (although he’s not a higher rate tax payer) and we are feeling the increase in costs as is everyone but we are managing. We are surviving with jumpers, lots of soup (which has actually been great for the waistline) and enjoying more free things on our doorstep rather than meals/expensive days out. I wouldn’t consider us to be “struggling” but obviously things are tighter than before.

There are things we can cut back further if we have to as well so we have wriggle room. There’s Netflix, Amazon Prime, Spotify, iCloud storage, iPhone contracts, gym memberships etc. All of these things we consider to be kind of essential but obviously they are not at all!

I do find it surprising (and not really believable) when people on much higher salaries say things like they genuinely can’t afford to eat.

YABU. Everyone is poorer than they were before the Brexit-pandemic-UkraineWar years. Someone living on benefits and food banks may still be doing extremely well compared to someone in North Korea / Africa whose kids keep dying of starvation. Does that mean the person living off benefits and food bank should never be permitted to complain about their life? No it does not.

It isn’t for you to order others not to complain.

If someone is too emotionally fragile to hear a complaint from someone richer than them, they should probably stay off social media, especially Mumsnet.

No you are not, there was an absolute roaster I saw earlier on twitter, millionaire in the financial times 'struggling'
twitter.com/Lucywwatson/status/1625135993287323648?t=ha46EyV5xRx6A1wv01rDIQ&s=19

Reading the room is the key phrase I guess.

Of course some people may feel as if they're struggling due to not being able to afford the holiday they want or to have the heating on enough to walk around in a t-shirt, to pay for expensive hobbies for themselves or their children or even school fees or/ and to replace the three year old car with a new financed one when the finance deal on the one they have runs out because it's never been a problem before ...

It's fine to moan about that to others in the same boat. It can cause a real crunch.

Read the room and don't complain to people who can't afford to pay their rent or bus fair or feed their kids though

Would you feel better if people said ‘feeling the pinch’ instead of ‘struggling’?

It’s true that people with better wages probably aren’t choosing food or fuel. They probably do out their heating on, even if less than previously. They might not be using food banks.

However, often people with bigger incomes have lots of financial commitments which they are tied to….mortgages etc. We all know all these costs have risen, so most people are now worse off than before. It feels hard for lots of people.

I don’t think that anyone who isn’t in absolute poverty should fear speaking about the impact of the cost of living crisis, for fear of offending, or because they aren’t the worst off. People shouldn’t be censored or told only certain groups can speak about a topic. Yes, all people should try to be sensitive to others.

On the basis of the fact that there are parts of the world where people are starving to death, been made homeless by earthquakes and live in war zones, none of us would ever be able to moan about difficulties in life, because none of us can qualify.

Everyine should be able to talk about how the cost of living crisis affects them. Some empathy from those more well off towards those less well off is needed, but it also cuts the other way too. Perhaps those who are less well-off need some empathy too towards those who are more well off, but also often hit hard and in perhaps surprising ways. It’s not a race to the bottom and all of us could do with some sensitivity, not being gagged.

No because a person struggling and visiting a food bank in the UK isn't having a conversation with someone starving in Africa. There's no connection there.

A well to do person on Mumsnet talking about not going on three holidays this year should consider their audience.

And actually, I'm not someone who is going without, nor am I earning a high wage - so those posts don't bother me hugely, they're just mildly annoying. But to other people it does really grate on them.

YABU it's hitting the majority of people and of course that varies.

It seems your thread should more say my family/friend is being a cf and refusing to pay me back from your other posts!