15 minute cities and the conspirators

[ivykaty44]

15 minute cities being organised to mean that you don't have to rely on a car to get to everything and can easily walk to many places therefore only have to use the car for longer journeys

the conspiracy theories im seeing on social media are suggesting its a world wide control formula and we will be fined for moving from one district to another.

www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2023/02/08/15-minute-city-conspiracy-theories-insane-says-15-minute-city-creator/?sh=121378916156

I'm wondering if the car manufactures are behind the conspiracy, as they would have a lot to lose if people live in places where they don't need a car and can just ave one family car or hire a car. Billions of sales could be lost if this takes off.

Some cities have gone car free - theculturetrip.com/europe/spain/articles/the-car-free-spanish-city/ and found after much objection, that it works well - especially for the elderly

Oxford also has green spaces it won’t hold on. That’s fine, I understand wanting to preserve them but Oxford has pushed its consequent housing requirement into the districts without much consideration of public transport being adequate. Then it wonders why so many are driving in.

Isnt this the point though - that cities should be designed so that everyone, and not just the rich, like 15 minutes away from museums, shops, doctors?

Unfortunately they do think they can do it and fuck things up in the meantime

Always brown people getting fucked over, next is poor people and women. Brown, poor women really are fucked

Brown, poor women need these jobs. Beats living in desperate poverty—poor brown women in China really benefited from making cheap ‘crap’ that’s in all your homes, it’s no small thing

@DarkShade But it will not happen.

I have not lost confidence at all. My DH and DD are disabled and we have two blue badge parking badges as a result so we will probably be exempt most of the time. But when I am on my own this policy will force me back to using buses. It is not a lack of confidence, but unlike most of the people pushing this, I did have to rely totally on walking and using buses with small children. It was totally shit, stressful and not cheap. When I could afford a car my life got way easier.

@ExistenceOptional

Why will it force you back onto buses?

Why get a bus to do a 15 minute walk? Unless you have a disability yourself?

I am not sure where people are getting the idea that a.15 minute cities means you cannot travel outside your area or b. you need a car to travel anywhere more than 15 min walk.

In a lot of cities plenty of people travel more than a 15 min walk for things - they just walk longer or get the bus/cycle.

I have medium sized Sainsbury's supermarket at 5 min walk from my flat so easy to walk to for top up shops and basics. Often I like to go to the bigger Sainsbury's or Lidl for more choice - both of which are more like a 30 min walk or a 10 min bus journey. Still very easy to access for msot able bodied, healthy people.

@Ginmonkeyagain

It's wierd, they think they're going to be banned from driving

On eof the saviours in lockdown was our area has a lot of small shops and is very walkable. So on Saturdays we could walk to the high street and pop in to different shops or buy a coffee and say hi to people as we walked around. Much nicer than miserably battling round a big supermarket (the Sunday queue for Sainsbury's still sucked though!)

From the Oxford Mail.
People can drive freely around their own neighbourhood and can apply for a permit to drive through the filters, and into other neighbourhoods, for up to 100 days per year. This equates to an average of two days per week.
So actually this does stop you driving through Oxford for 265 days a year OR it forces even more traffic onto the already overloaded ring road.
As an occasional visitor (dropping children off at Uni perhaps?), or as someone going over your 100 day limit, you'll be fined going in £70 each time (reduced to £35 for quick payment).

@Ginmonkeyagain 30 minutes walk to a supermarket with young kids, then walking back again with bags of shopping is not easy. I used to do it. It is hell. More people will just do online shopping instead.
You sound very fit so don't understand.
When I was young everyone had about a 10-15 minute walk to our local small co-op and bakery. But our mums used to go to the shops most days. They did not have to carry heavy bags back as a result.

Because it takes longer than 15 minutes walk. Just to get to the cemetery that I visit most days is about 30 minute walk. I would need two buses to get there, so I just would not go any more, too difficult for a daily 20 minute visit to a grave.

People doing online supermarket shopping for big shops isn't a bad thing though? The more people who shop online the more delivery routes can be optimised to reduce the amount of driving the vans do.

@ExistenceOptional Which is why online shopping is so popular, something that I use a lot . Back on the old days people also had grocery deliveries.

@ExistenceOptional

The whole point is that stuff like the shops, a GP etc won't take longer than 15 min to walk.

Nobody is taking your car away

I do a 20 min walk to the shops and back with a child. I have a shopping trolley and raincoats.

It's not hell, don't be so blumin dramatic!

Also a 30 min walk really really isn't that much in terms of exercise for msot people. My 75 yea r old dad walks far more that that every day.

If you don't drive everywhere there are issues - for example I have to pre plan my shopping so I buy heavier or perishable things last - no car boot to stash them in whilst I get on with other shopping.

My point is I think you are wrong. It will benefit middle class people and your answers show you do not understand how it negatively impacts poor people.
A lot of poor people can not make the minimum order for online shopping, so they will pay a delivery charge and pay more. Artisan food shops in well off areas will flourish but in poor areas there will still be very few actual food shops within a 15 minute walk. Supermarkets will downsize their actual floor space as people with money all move online so leaving less choice for those who have to shop in person. Getting food deliveries is easy for those who work from home, but everyone else is tied to the house at a specific time.

I know there used to be food deliveries to people who did not have access to shops or decent shops. They were very expensive with not much choice.

You are talking about taking the car away. By limiting the number of car journeys that can be taken people are having cars taken away for all but long journeys, that is the point of it. And for many of us it will leave is with less choice, harder lives and no real benefits.

Although I would love to know where you think all these GPs and dentists are going to appear from? The GP surgery I am with has closed its list, anyone moving here now has to go further away. My DH travels 15 miles to his NHS dentist. There are no NHS dentists close by. Our greengrocer closed a while ago, its not coming back.

Unlike some on here I remember a time when everyone walked to where they needed to. The Dr and dentist was close to our house, plus schools, church, cemetery, and shops. But the shops had very little choice. Our fruit was bananas, apples, oranges - pears, strawberries and satsumas in season. That was it. People would not be happy with the very limited choice we then had.

@Ginmonkeyagain I do not think you have any idea how people live.

I grew up ina single parent family on a farm where there were two buses a day and the nearest train station was two miles away.

I currently live in an area where 20% of people earn below the living wage and many cannot afford to buy or run a car at all. I live in flat because I cannot afford anything larger.

But yeah - I have no idea how people live.

Wanting to be able to walk to the shops is a posh thing now.

@Ginmonkeyagain Yeah just mock me why don't you. I am used to middle class people doing that when I try and explain what the realities are like for poor people. Reminds me the time a middle class man mocked me when the local authority were talking about doing development work that would mean everyone would have to walk 5 minutes to a communal car park. He was running the meeting and mocked me for not wanting to walk 5 minutes totally ignoring that as I and others had said a communal car park would just lead to our cars being badly vandalised. Our experience and knowledge is always seen as useless. I should be used to this.

Let's also be clear the concept of 15 minute cities and what Oxford council are doing are not the same thing.

However policies that try and reduce car use in areas of severe congestion and illegally high air pollution are not a conspiracy, they are tryign to tackle the very real damage excessive car use does. More often than not air pollution disproportionately affects the health and well being of the low income people you purport to be so concerned about.

@ExistenceOptional - where have I mocked you? You are not the ony person in the world who has ver been poor or lived in an area with very poor public transport.

It's all getting a bit four Yorkshireman.