15 minute cities and the conspirators

[ivykaty44]

15 minute cities being organised to mean that you don't have to rely on a car to get to everything and can easily walk to many places therefore only have to use the car for longer journeys

the conspiracy theories im seeing on social media are suggesting its a world wide control formula and we will be fined for moving from one district to another.

www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2023/02/08/15-minute-city-conspiracy-theories-insane-says-15-minute-city-creator/?sh=121378916156

I'm wondering if the car manufactures are behind the conspiracy, as they would have a lot to lose if people live in places where they don't need a car and can just ave one family car or hire a car. Billions of sales could be lost if this takes off.

Some cities have gone car free - theculturetrip.com/europe/spain/articles/the-car-free-spanish-city/ and found after much objection, that it works well - especially for the elderly

Of course. Why on earth wouldn't you be?

I think people are falsely equating the idea of having good local facilities in walking distance with banning cars. Surely the idea is about reducing the need for some journeys. Not about eliminating them all.

This is an issue. You need to have better infrastructure in place if you are going to remove some transport options. If councils want more people to use buses/ trains they need to be available and affordable.

One of the big shames is the loss of post offices, banks and local shops in rural communities. Most villages would have these basic amenities. But now people have to drive to get to them.

15 minute neighbourhoods - another daft planning theory/ soundbite masquerading as the answer to inequality, the climate crisis, and saving the planet. Strangely enough, I have yet to hear/read about a successful real-life example…

@EsmeSusanOgg A mile in 15 minutes is too fast. That means walking 4 miles an hour. That is a faster rate than the average walking speed in cities which tends to be under 3 miles an hour and for older people often under a mile an hour.
People do not walk through cities at the pace they do walking through fields. Just look at people walking in a City and you see most do not walk fast, while many people walk pretty slowly.

If this is based on most people being able to walk a mile in 15 minutes in a City then it is based on a very flawed assumption. And basically based on a fit man without young kids with them.

Brieandchilli, a 45 min walk could be a 15 min bike ride

Caitandchianti, I thought they had them.in places like Milan and Madrid

@Devoutspoken Why the push to get everyone on bikes? I am not riding a bike in a City. At the moment it is too dangerous with cars. Without cars it would be too dangerous with the boy racers on bikes. I would be pretty slow and do not want to face the inevitable male aggression. I also do not have the money lying around to buy a bike anyway. I want buses that run well and pleasant walking routes.

These people do not care. They order everything online and do online banking. They want fancy coffee shops and restaurants. They don't give a toss what poorer people need.

I agree about the cars.

But the boy racers on bikes? I've cycled around my city for 30 years and I've never had any problems with other cyclists.

Not once.

@ExistenceOptional ahh that posh area of - "checks notes" - suburban South East London.

Guys 15 min cities do not mean everything has to be within a 15 min walk or you cannot leave it (it's not Escape from LA). It is just about encouraging liveable, walkable cities - you known like a lot of those very desirable market towns and cities seen here and across Europe.

@QuertyGirl If cars were removed certain cyclists would want to go fast. The deliveroo cyclists, the middle aged men in lycra. They already annoy cyclists in my city as they happily get in the way of car drivers sometimes doing quick but dangerous manoeuvres. I think they would just transfer that to slower cyclists.
But I admit I don't want to cycle. I am too old to take this up. I was a nervous enough cyclist when I was young and there were nowhere near the same number of cars about. I just do not want to add another stress to my life.

I've posted before about my cousin - she is currently deep into this particular conspiracy and is always posting about Oxford, despite living in the north west and having never been there.

Irony is she has previously complained about having to travel so far to get to a dentist - the idea that planning policy requires/encourages mixed areas so you don't just have a housing estate but an area with houses, businesses, services etc is somehow the start of the end of times for her.

Very true, 4 miles an hour is fast, it's the speed I go when I am really cracking on to get to the shopping centre which is 1.5 miles away, I pass loads of people going much slower. Average walking speed in town is under 3mph and for many only 2mph.

It's very possible in dense cities.

I live in Tokyo and almost everything I need is within a 15min walk.

Car-bound living is only convenient if you ignore the fact that you will then have to find time for special, scheduled "exercise time" on top of everything else you have to do (or accept growing weight and deteriorating health as you get older); with dense walkable living, you get your exercise at the same time as getting other things accomplished. It's a form of multitasking.

My 11yo and my elderly MIL can get themselves about. Meanwhile, my friends in suburban Britain spend two decades driving children and enormous teenagers around everywhere - driving, driving, driving. Once kids are too old to simply be turned out to "play in the garden" you wind up signing them for clubs and activities just to try to keep them from become screen-addled room recluses, but almost everything requires parental driving, Then, after that responsibility is finally over, you hopefully get a few years respite before you have to start driving elderly parents and parents-in-law about. Meanwhile, nobody of any age is getting any exercise.

I love dense, walkable life.

It's not impossible though. There are many cities in Northern Europe where bike transport is the norm for families, so it's a perfectly reasonable aim in the medium term.

And you don't need the money lying around to buy a bike: bike hiring schemes or tax free employer loans are cheaper for most people than public transport would be. Santander bike scheme costs twenty quid a month - which is an awful lot cheaper than the forty bus trips you'd need for a Monday to Friday job.

Personally I can't ride a bike due to a pelvic deformity so unless bike lanes are shared with scooters I'm stuck with buses and trams.

So they annoy car drivers? What makes you think that they annoy other cyclists?

Loads of Deliveroo cyclists round here. Doesn't bother me. I worry for them actually as their bikes don't look well maintained.

Loads of middle aged men in Lycra too. They never bother me either. They just overtake me.

I'm a middle aged woman (not in Lycra) on a bike. It's a huge stress reliever- it's all about confidence and age is just a number.

Try it, you might surprise yourself

How are women supposed to be safe walking at night? I live in a northern town and never walk anywhere at night alone. When my children were young I could not have done a weekly shop with a double buggy and sciatica without it a car. Even less doable on windy wet freezing cold days with a baby and a toddler. So narrow minded on behalf of the planners.

@Ginmonkeyagain But most cities outside London are not like this. Plenty of places in London are not like that either. If I had to rely on what was available within 15 minutes walk I would be going nowhere except weatherspoons and getting most things online.
We do know we are not locked in, but the whole concept is so far away from the reality.
And I don't know who made the comment about being able to get a dentist 15 minutes walk away. Most of us can not get a dentist at all. When I phoned 111 for advice they advised me of a few potential places but said if they would not take me on I would have to look outside the City to places up to 26 miles away.

@greenteafiend I agree. I could not stand to be beholden to a car to get anywhere or do anything.

Plenty of cities around the world, and some in the UK, have high levels of cycling segregated from motor vehicles, and serious cycle-on-cycle collisions are extremely rare.

Generally speaking even the most idiotic of cyclists don't actually want to hit anyone, because probably they'll come off badly themselves. Drivers, protected by a metal shell, are often much less careful.

@QuertyGirl I am in my late fifties and would only take on the additional cost and stress of cycling if I had literally no other choice.

I have done this in the past without a car while working as well. It is pretty hellish. I used to buy food partly based on weight. Anything heavy I would not consider.

It's not stressful- it's totally the opposite!

Wheeeeeeeeeeeee!!!

The more people who are walking, the safer it is. I'm in a high crime area of central London, and am absolutely fine to walk home from the tube at 11pm because there's always people on the street.