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Original poster

15 minute cities and the conspirators

629 replies

ivykaty44 · 13/02/2023 18:08

15 minute cities being organised to mean that you don't have to rely on a car to get to everything and can easily walk to many places therefore only have to use the car for longer journeys

the conspiracy theories im seeing on social media are suggesting its a world wide control formula and we will be fined for moving from one district to another.

www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2023/02/08/15-minute-city-conspiracy-theories-insane-says-15-minute-city-creator/?sh=121378916156

I'm wondering if the car manufactures are behind the conspiracy, as they would have a lot to lose if people live in places where they don't need a car and can just ave one family car or hire a car. Billions of sales could be lost if this takes off.

Some cities have gone car free - theculturetrip.com/europe/spain/articles/the-car-free-spanish-city/ and found after much objection, that it works well - especially for the elderly

OP posts:
QuertyGirl · 17/02/2023 13:01

OutofEverything · 17/02/2023 12:59

@QuertyGirl Buses are not fabulous. Do you actually work? I spent years standing on aisles of squashed buses to and from work - 2 buses each way. Having to leave anywhere in the evening by 10pm to get the last bus home. Not going places as transport was too difficult. Going one local place as a day out in the weekend instead of being able to go a number of places. Only able to access popular parts of the countryside near me where there is public transport. It limited my life so much. And trains are too expensive - we can't afford them. So it would either be walk, bus or nothing.

I work.

You have to believe all that because you've sunk a great deal of time, effort and money into your car.

In all honestly, it's perfectly possible to live a good life without one. I'm not the enemy here.

Timesawastin · 17/02/2023 13:02

sst1234 · 14/02/2023 08:50

Oh look the intellectual among us are out in force this morning. Telling anyone who says anything different that they are a conspiracy theorist. There are some conspiracy theorists out there, and there is an equal number of idiots who struggle to think for themselves and call everyone else a conspiracy theorist. The balance exists.

Sigh. Why is it that the ability to think rationally is now an insult?

Original poster
ivykaty44 · 17/02/2023 13:02

But delivery vans can knock people down and there will certainly be loads of those as everyone is buying online and getting groceries delivered as it is the only way they will be able to get a big shop. There will be a big stream of delivery vans.

there will not be as many delivery vans as there are cars, and some supermarkets use cargo bikes for deliveries as its quicker and easier. getting shopping delivered will not be the only way people can get a big shop

OP posts:
RedRiverShore3 · 17/02/2023 13:03

Cycles are a bit of a pain though, we have several including 2 Bromptons that you can fold up and carry, you can't carry such a lot on them for shopping though, we mainly use them for leisure.

OutofEverything · 17/02/2023 13:03

I don't have to believe that. Everyone told me we should get a car. We could not afford one and told everyone we were fine. Then DH got a job and needed a car. It opened up our world. The only place I have lived where it does not matter is London.

QuertyGirl · 17/02/2023 13:04

RedRiverShore3 · 17/02/2023 13:03

Cycles are a bit of a pain though, we have several including 2 Bromptons that you can fold up and carry, you can't carry such a lot on them for shopping though, we mainly use them for leisure.

Bromptons are great but not built for shopping.

Could flog one and put it towards a small electric/cargo bike

FriendRemarks · 17/02/2023 13:04

Stackss · 17/02/2023 12:38

The point many are missing is that we will all need to make sacrifices to tackle the climate crisis. I would love to drive to Waitrose for my food shopping, but it is simply no longer sustainable when there is a co-op at the end of the street. Buses are available if I absolutely need to visit Waitrose.

Of course there will be exceptions and any scheme should cater for these rare events- e.g. taking out Aunt Meg who lives outside your permitted zone. But these should be rare and in exceptional circumstances.

Stuff you have been saying on this thread really reminds me of some of the worst Covid doommongering. "Life as you know it is over I'm afraid... no more popping to Mum's for a coffee! No more celebrations - those days are gone!".

It isn't helpful and if people want to avoid stupid conspiracy theories springing up they'd be best to stop this. People are very sensitive post-lockdowns to any idea their life will be upended overnight and their loved ones separated from them.

Having stuff within 15 minutes is a noble planning aim and making things more accessible by foot AND public transport (for those unable to walk/cycle) should be at the heart of everything. And traffic calming measures are a good thing - but penalties, charges, permits should be last resorts after doing the "right thing" has been made far easier than it currently is. Change should be voluntary. And people don't need to be kept apart any more than they have been.

And while supporting local has many benefits, it's really not good to spend excessive time "at home" - for people's mental or physical health (even people I know who wfh like to get out and about in their free time, and those that are unable to are struggling as a result)

OutofEverything · 17/02/2023 13:06

Bromptons are expensive bikes. About a £1000 for the cheapest. And where do you store it while you go to a restaurant?
Bromptons are for people cycling to an office where they can take a shower.

Original poster
ivykaty44 · 17/02/2023 13:07

here is an bike brand new for under £800 buying a second car for a family would cost the same as 4 bikes, but then the bikes pay the same car tax as a zero rating car, don't use fuel each week and insurance for a family for the bikes comes in at around £120 for the year rather than £400 its seriously cheaper than owning a car

OP posts:
RedRiverShore3 · 17/02/2023 13:08

QuertyGirl · 17/02/2023 13:04

Bromptons are great but not built for shopping.

Could flog one and put it towards a small electric/cargo bike

Show quote history

I don't want to flog one, they are handy for shoving in the car for holidays as you don't need a bike rack. Our other bikes are for various other weathers and terrains and not very good for shopping either

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 17/02/2023 13:09

Stuff you have been saying on this thread really reminds me of some of the worst Covid doommongering. "Life as you know it is over I'm afraid... no more popping to Mum's for a coffee! No more celebrations - those days are gone!"

There were similar posts on the Oxford 15 minute thread and a few people pointed out the similarity to the 'get used to living your life and socialising via a screen from now on' threads.

QuertyGirl · 17/02/2023 13:12

ivykaty44 · 17/02/2023 13:07

here is an bike brand new for under £800 buying a second car for a family would cost the same as 4 bikes, but then the bikes pay the same car tax as a zero rating car, don't use fuel each week and insurance for a family for the bikes comes in at around £120 for the year rather than £400 its seriously cheaper than owning a car

It's insane; people driving machines that cost a few grand claiming that they're the oppressed poor in comparison to someone like me on £200 second hand bike.

Really is black is white

OutofEverything · 17/02/2023 13:13

@ivykaty44 But ebikes have way more limited use than cars. They are not as practical. Everyone I know who bikes places has a car as well. I accept its not the same on London.

QuertyGirl · 17/02/2023 13:13

@RedRiverShore3

You don't need various bikes for different weathers/terrains 😆

I suspect you're a marketing executives wet dream

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 17/02/2023 13:14

People are very sensitive post-lockdowns to any idea their life will be upended overnight and their loved ones separated from them

IMO this is the most perceptive comment on here. In March 2020 we suddenly discovered that our ordinary every day could be taken away from us because the government said so and for 'the greater good' - and at the back of a lot of people's mind is that that instability could happen again. And you only have to look at the 2020 covid threads to find the people who loved telling others what they should (or more likely shouldn't) be doing and were all too willing to police that.

IMO a lot of ideas like 15 minute cities and the people floating them pay insufficient attention to that sense of insecurity that many have now.

OutofEverything · 17/02/2023 13:17

I agree. Life is still harder than 2019.

RedRiverShore3 · 17/02/2023 13:18

QuertyGirl · 17/02/2023 13:13

@RedRiverShore3

You don't need various bikes for different weathers/terrains 😆

I suspect you're a marketing executives wet dream

No I don't, I just have one Brompton, mainly for holidays, but DH likes his bikes so has several but as I am the same height as him I can ride them, I think he may get rid of a couple of them though. Insurance isn't very expensive though as they are all listed on the house insurance, I doubt it's £120 quoted above

QuertyGirl · 17/02/2023 13:19

@MrsDanversGlidesAgain

Good point.

I think that most people don't quite appreciate how much power the government actually has. They know theoretically but the reality somewhat threw them.

It explains a lot of the conspiracy theory stuff going around- it's how people are coming to terms with their discovery of "government".

FriendRemarks · 17/02/2023 13:21

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 17/02/2023 13:09

Stuff you have been saying on this thread really reminds me of some of the worst Covid doommongering. "Life as you know it is over I'm afraid... no more popping to Mum's for a coffee! No more celebrations - those days are gone!"

There were similar posts on the Oxford 15 minute thread and a few people pointed out the similarity to the 'get used to living your life and socialising via a screen from now on' threads.

Yes. The thing I found so disconcerting back in those days was how quickly hysteria took over and not just on here. People who were forgiving, caring moderate and pragmatic and weighed up costs/benefits suddenly went full scale authoritarian. It was scary (and I did stick to the rules, I'm not a Laurence Fox type). I am very wary of a climate-style repeat and being guilted out of anything that brings happiness/joy but may not be deemed "necessary" by whoever declares themselves an authority on such things.

Action does need taking on climate/environmental issues but not at absolutely any cost and we cannot break down social bonds or change society overnight without serious consequences.

Timesawastin · 17/02/2023 13:22

pansiesinmygarden · 14/02/2023 19:58

We have been locked up in our homes
The push to go vegan, starve and give up most foods is relentless
Some people have felt coerced into vaccination

Not sure about the rest or the car industry

Show quote history
  1. No, we haven't. Unless you live in China
  2. Don't want to eat vegan/ give up food you like? Don't.
  3. Vaccination is just sensible health care. Utterly routine before the loons started kicking off about it.

Honestly, grow a spine, make your own decisions and own them. Stop pretending anyone's forcing you because they aren't.

ACynicalDad · 17/02/2023 13:25

I think the concept is wonderful, less cars, more walking and bikes. Where I live pretty much ticks it off already.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 17/02/2023 13:30

Honestly, grow a spine, make your own decisions and own them. Stop pretending anyone's forcing you because they aren't

Yeah, pretty much this. I buy vegan samosas from Waitrose because they are pretty damn tasty. I also considered buying chicken for the weekend. Just ignore all the hype and the PR and buy what you want (easy for me because the vegan stuff looks pretty rank anyway - looking at you, Cauldron, ruining your vege sausages).

RedRiverShore3 · 17/02/2023 13:33

The worst thing though is it is just independent shops, no chain stores that are generally cheaper.

Makemetry · 17/02/2023 13:36

The covid laws brought home to us that our supposed freedom is nothing more than an illusion. We aren’t free at all, because at the drop of a hat our movement and association with others can be legally restricted.

I think it’s really perceptive that the 15 minute city is talking about doing exactly this, but it’s going to be monitored with cameras so even more extreme.

GabriellaMontez · 17/02/2023 13:38

Laughable. My council already struggles to find primary places. Many children don't get their 'catchment' school. Some have to travel miles past several full schools to get to one with a space.

This would make their journeys even worse.

And I've already heard of one family in Oxford whose grandma does the school run. Her journey time has doubled.

I don't know who gains from this. Lots of trips will take longer. I suspect its more of an ideology.