15 minute cities and the conspirators

[ivykaty44]

15 minute cities being organised to mean that you don't have to rely on a car to get to everything and can easily walk to many places therefore only have to use the car for longer journeys

the conspiracy theories im seeing on social media are suggesting its a world wide control formula and we will be fined for moving from one district to another.

www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2023/02/08/15-minute-city-conspiracy-theories-insane-says-15-minute-city-creator/?sh=121378916156

I'm wondering if the car manufactures are behind the conspiracy, as they would have a lot to lose if people live in places where they don't need a car and can just ave one family car or hire a car. Billions of sales could be lost if this takes off.

Some cities have gone car free - theculturetrip.com/europe/spain/articles/the-car-free-spanish-city/ and found after much objection, that it works well - especially for the elderly

Do you have data for that? Your assertion is not data

No, it's only private cars that are banned isn't it, there will still be traffic and those scooters are a menace, usually used by the local youth to play on

It is trying to roll back to 50 years ago without understanding the world has changed. It will just kill my local high street.

have you got proof that banning cars will kill your high street? I linked previously to the Spanish city that banned cars and that didn't kill the local high street

@QuertyGirl My experience. Pedestrianisation helps cafes, bars and restaurants and leisure shopping where people browse in nice little gift shops. It does not help practical shopping. Which is why retail parks have flourished where I live. That is where people go for functional shopping. They drive there and it makes it far harder for those without cars.

The point many are missing is that we will all need to make sacrifices to tackle the climate crisis. I would love to drive to Waitrose for my food shopping, but it is simply no longer sustainable when there is a co-op at the end of the street. Buses are available if I absolutely need to visit Waitrose.

Of course there will be exceptions and any scheme should cater for these rare events- e.g. taking out Aunt Meg who lives outside your permitted zone. But these should be rare and in exceptional circumstances.

I live in a natural 15 minute city and have not owned a car for 20 years.

I also -

Travel a lot domestically and internationally for work and leisure

Shop in a variety of supermarkets

Have never taken shopping or a shopping trolley to a restaurant (although I did take a Lidl shop to the pub once).

In terms of what you do about heavy stuff - you get it delivered. The internet is a thing now.

No, it's only private cars that are banned isn't it, there will still be traffic and those scooters are a menace, usually used by the local youth to play on

kids don't play out now as the private cars knock dc down and the space is crammed with cars

children aren't even allowed to walk to school due to the scare of drivers knocking them down

Again, that is not data.

The evidence, based on actual data and properly considered, suggests that cutting traffic actually gives local economies a boost.

This is being discussed on R4 now, btw

@Stackss Climate crisis needs to be addressed. But all that will happen is people like me will not be able to go to free museums and nice cafes in well off areas, we will have to send kids to the local school where only other poor people go, while rich people will still fly all over the world.

But delivery vans can knock people down and there will certainly be loads of those as everyone is buying online and getting groceries delivered as it is the only way they will be able to get a big shop. There will be a big stream of delivery vans.

@QuertyGirl It gave that medieval Spanish City a boost. It makes it into a leisure opportunity. It is what my local council want to do. They talk about leisure shopping.
They got rid of places poor people shopped like the local market, and knocked down an area where shops used by mainly poorer people went.
Its all bars, restaurants and leisure stuff.

Why not?

@QuertyGirl Because those nice places are more than 15 minutes walk away.

So get a bus? Ride a bike?

Cars are not mandatory

@QuertyGirl Yes we would have to go back to buses. I spent years on buses, waiting at bus stops in the rain and cold and having to take two buses for pretty short distances. Having to think carefully before you bought anything at all heavy or awkward. Getting a car gave me so much freedom.
I know cars are optional. But it will make me very sad if I have to go back to those days. And it will reduce a lot what I and my family can do in a week. Its just not physically possible when having to get lots of buses.

All of those families with skipping children aren't going to walk down the town with a shopping trolley several times a week to the bakery, small independent greengrocers, etc. they will be getting a shopping delivery so the idyllic streets are going to be clogged with delivery vans. We have those little Co-op robots delivering shopping but they don't hold much and they take up lots of footpath if there are a few of them, they certainly don't hold a weekly shop

Disabilities excepted, I think that most people have lost confidence in their own bodies.

I'm a fairly average person, yet I can cycle everywhere including up the occasional hill. I'm not an athlete.

Doing it in the rain is not the horror that people think it is. It's just water.

The personal benefits to it are huge!

And that's my life now, unless I ride a bike.

You know what, it's great! Buses are fabulous for people watching. It's time to chill or chat with my child. He gets to know his city and understand it.

I don't want a car. I don't need one.

with e bikes you can wizz up a hill and easily cover 5 miles in 20 minutes. I have two friends with physical disabilities who both ride e bikes, one a trike for balance and the find them easier as they don't have to walk from car to the shop but can park right outside

I'm not that fit. I'm very average.

I cycle, I get the bus, I'm fine.

@QuertyGirl Buses are not fabulous. Do you actually work? I spent years standing on aisles of squashed buses to and from work - 2 buses each way. Having to leave anywhere in the evening by 10pm to get the last bus home. Not going places as transport was too difficult. Going one local place as a day out in the weekend instead of being able to go a number of places. Only able to access popular parts of the countryside near me where there is public transport. It limited my life so much. And trains are too expensive - we can't afford them. So it would either be walk, bus or nothing.

@ivykaty44 e bikes are very expensive. Four ebikes would cost more than our car did. And then you have to find somewhere safe to store them. Loads of bikes get stolen in my city so I would not just leave such expensive kit padlocked in the street.

Someone needs to tell our local industries that, then. Our council wages war on motorists, decent local shops can be counted on the fingers of one hand, and when shops do close they seem to re-open as vape shops or fast food franchises or Tesco; not to mention every bank pulling out in timing that can only be described as suspiciously coincidental. I don't shop within 15 minutes except for food and anything I need from the local stationers. Everything else I do elsewhere where there's a) better choice and b) less grim surroundings. And this is a prosperous outer London borough that has been an abysmal shopping experience for years, so plenty of time to improve and make itself attractive for the locals.