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Original poster

15 minute cities and the conspirators

629 replies

ivykaty44 · 13/02/2023 18:08

15 minute cities being organised to mean that you don't have to rely on a car to get to everything and can easily walk to many places therefore only have to use the car for longer journeys

the conspiracy theories im seeing on social media are suggesting its a world wide control formula and we will be fined for moving from one district to another.

www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2023/02/08/15-minute-city-conspiracy-theories-insane-says-15-minute-city-creator/?sh=121378916156

I'm wondering if the car manufactures are behind the conspiracy, as they would have a lot to lose if people live in places where they don't need a car and can just ave one family car or hire a car. Billions of sales could be lost if this takes off.

Some cities have gone car free - theculturetrip.com/europe/spain/articles/the-car-free-spanish-city/ and found after much objection, that it works well - especially for the elderly

OP posts:
RedRiverShore3 · 17/02/2023 13:41

Well off people won't worry about the fines anyway for travelling along the wrong road, it will be like the Covid fines, as Boris said, it's like getting a parking ticket, rich people sometimes collect loads of those as they don't care and can easily pay them

thehorsehasnowbolted · 17/02/2023 14:03

OutofEverything · 17/02/2023 12:29

@RedRiverShore3 Yes either people in London with great transport facilities, or people who do not go out their house much e.g. elderly people with a weekly trip to the supermarket and trips to the Dr.

Yes, and even the eldely's relatives often rely on a car to take them to appointments, etc

Ginmonkeyagain · 17/02/2023 14:05

Most of the covid "laws" were nothing of the sort. All that stuff about only going out of the house once a day or limiting the distance you could go from your home were absolute nonsense.

People made up their own harsher rules.

OutofEverything · 17/02/2023 14:08

thehorsehasnowbolted · 17/02/2023 14:03

Yes, and even the eldely's relatives often rely on a car to take them to appointments, etc

Show quote history

That is very true. My parents got lifts from their adult children.
And people on here complain all the time about lifts expected from non car drivers.

thehorsehasnowbolted · 17/02/2023 14:12

OutofEverything · 17/02/2023 12:41

@Stackss Climate crisis needs to be addressed. But all that will happen is people like me will not be able to go to free museums and nice cafes in well off areas, we will have to send kids to the local school where only other poor people go, while rich people will still fly all over the world.

That's what 'progress' looks like for lefties

FriendRemarks · 17/02/2023 14:32

Ginmonkeyagain · 17/02/2023 14:05

Most of the covid "laws" were nothing of the sort. All that stuff about only going out of the house once a day or limiting the distance you could go from your home were absolute nonsense.

People made up their own harsher rules.

Yes they did. And a lot of it was enforced through peer pressure and social media shaming.
It starts small but can snowball - I vividly remember the first weeks running up to it when a few isolated people started with the "don't leave your homes!" stuff and most people were laughing it off while trying to be cautious yet level-headed.... then suddenly almost overnight they seemed to multiply and it was all the "Bev went to the gym and the pub - and then to see granny and granny got the virus" and that one with the burning matches, and photographing people walking about outside or sitting eating chips then posting it online. Shaming was never the way to go, and never should be again.

I just shudder at the thought I'd have to bend over backwards trying to justify going to family or seeing a friend or having a nice day out with the kids, or forego it all, in case everyone would think I was terrible due to "shaming", or priced out of it all. I don't have an extravagant life and am generally frugal so the little things are what make life worth living, even more so for those struggling even more. People hear things about climate and drastic action and they are scared - will life/work be unmanageable, even costlier, miserable? If they don't have a lot anyway they'll be particularly heightened to any suggestion someone might "take" the little they have. It's easier to be "green" with more money.

And yes, having more options locally is a great start. Make it easier/cheaper for people to ditch the car rather than relying on making cars more expensive/harder. Extend provision so people have the option to go to stuff locally - surely that's a good thing. Tying this to notions of draconian restrictions, fines and costs just ensures it'll never fly with a huge section of people.

thehorsehasnowbolted · 17/02/2023 14:33

ivykaty44 · 17/02/2023 12:37

It is trying to roll back to 50 years ago without understanding the world has changed. It will just kill my local high street.

have you got proof that banning cars will kill your high street? I linked previously to the Spanish city that banned cars and that didn't kill the local high street

Are you serious? Have you seen the pictures from the city you linked (Pontevedra)? The place looks pretty much like a ghost town and the bars are empty. Apparently the locals and businesses opposed fiercely but Mayor Lores (far Left) went ahead regardless. Does it ring a bell?

Interestingly the only articles you can find when you do a quick google are from politico.eu and the Guardian - all claiming how wonderful the scheme has been. No surprise there. Perhaps it's already been 'prebunked'

  • theculturetrip.com/europe/spain/articles/the-car-free-spanish-city/

It's only the historical centre that has been pedestrianised, however, apparently not much people live there, it's a tiny area full of mainly public buildings

thehorsehasnowbolted · 17/02/2023 14:35

Also Pontevedra (it's tiny historical centre) was pedestrianised 23 years ago. If the scheme has been so fantastic, why didn't other cities quickly follow suit?

You are talking nonsense here OP. Cheap and deceitful propaganda I'm afraid

QuertyGirl · 17/02/2023 14:37

So clean and air and safe streets are "lefty" now?

This is culture war crap

thehorsehasnowbolted · 17/02/2023 14:48

QuertyGirl · 17/02/2023 14:37

So clean and air and safe streets are "lefty" now?

This is culture war crap

See who's pushing all this lunacy

They don't care if the high streets are empty, they hate progress, business and capitalism. We would be all living in cubes and out of hand outs if it were for them

QuertyGirl · 17/02/2023 14:49

This is progress.

Look at Paris

feellikeanalien · 17/02/2023 15:13

Trouble is they're trying to put the cart before the horse. Improve public transport infrastructure and make it affordable then think about restricting cars. At the moment the main reason is to introduce another revenue stream for the local council.

Shopping locally and frequently was something my mum did when I was a child. Thing is the village had everything you could need and we would only have an occasional trip to the nearest town. Now it has a post office and small general store where the prices are higher and the choice is limited. There are also limited opening hours which are pretty impossible for those who have to work. At the time she was also a SAHM so had the time to do this. With two salaries needed now to even sustain a fairly modest standard of living time is a luxury that many people do not have.

Poorer people as usual will be the ones who suffer if this is implemented in this way. The only supermarkets which don't do home delivery are the cheapest.

I actually like the idea of being able to walk to everywhere I need. Cycling and walking long distances would be out of the question if I was with DD because she is disabled and I am her sole carer. She enjoys going on the bus and metro if we go to town but it is expensive.

People get so heated over this issue. The problem is that common sense is rarely applied. Give people a sensible, realistic alternative and I'm sure many more would be happy to stop using their cars so much.

OutofEverything · 17/02/2023 15:37

I am lefty.

Pontevedra has as much pedestrianisation of its centre as my city already has. Its not unusual. What is unusual is that Pontevedra is a very small City for this level.
It is a medieval City with very narrow streets and a fair number of tourists.

I stayed in Dubrovnik old city that is totally pedestrianised. It was lovely. But we were on holiday and it was fine slowly walking around the streets. No kids to get to school, or even shopping to purchase. I doubt any residents actually live in the old City though. They live in the new City with roads, cars and buses.

QuertyGirl · 17/02/2023 15:43

There is a school in the old city of Dubrovnik.

Paris is doing this and doing well

thehorsehasnowbolted · 17/02/2023 15:44

I doubt any residents actually live in the old City though. They live in the new City with roads, cars and buses.

Indeed, that's the case. You can find some more information in the Spanish media. But it's not explained very well in those few articles that they have managed to write after 23 years at all

Perhaps Google should pull the Translate option, as it may be working against their 'pre bunking' efforts in the future

OutofEverything · 17/02/2023 15:45

@QuertyGirl In the old walled city? It must be exceptionally small as we walked all over and I saw no school.

thehorsehasnowbolted · 17/02/2023 15:45

QuertyGirl · 17/02/2023 15:43

There is a school in the old city of Dubrovnik.

Paris is doing this and doing well

All of Paris is pedestrianised? Do you have a link? Preferably not from the Guardian or EU propaganda? Thanks

OutofEverything · 17/02/2023 15:47

Just googled. 1557 people live in the old City of Dubrovnik and the school takes 156 children. They have had trouble attracting enough children who do not live in the old city.

OutofEverything · 17/02/2023 15:49

About 100 streets are pedestrianised throughout the whole of Paris from a total of about 6,100 streets.

QuertyGirl · 17/02/2023 15:49

Assuming I don't have to mention Amsterdam

thehorsehasnowbolted · 17/02/2023 15:49

OutofEverything · 17/02/2023 15:47

Just googled. 1557 people live in the old City of Dubrovnik and the school takes 156 children. They have had trouble attracting enough children who do not live in the old city.

Smoke and mirrors by the OP and a few other gullible posters

OutofEverything · 17/02/2023 15:50

@QuertyGirl No one is against all pedestrianisation. That has been routine in the UK for years.

Devoutspoken · 17/02/2023 15:52

Smoke and mirrors? I take it you mean the fumes and wing mirrors of the horrific traffic jams in most towns?

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