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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

How much does my tenant owe me?

521 replies

Golaz · 10/02/2023 12:25

Hi all,

I’ve had a tenant in my flat on for a few years. She’s been on a rolling contract since the first six months. She normally pays rent on the 11th of the month for the month ahead.

I gave her notice on 22nd January, that I would need the flat back by 16th April. (Under a rolling contract I need to give 2 months notice, but I wanted to let her know earlier rather than later, to give her some time to sort something).

On the 4th February she informed me she had found somewhere and would be moving out probably around the middle of February. I followed up today and asked if she had a date. She told me yes- she’s moving out on the 18th and will return on the 20th to clean the place.

How much rent does she owe me? She’s already paid until the 11th. She seems to think she only needs to pay for an extra week until the 18th , but in the rolling contract she’s supposed to give me one months notice so I feel like she should pay until the 4th March.

AIBU?

OP posts:
Streakyt · 10/02/2023 13:16

It all depends on the actual dates of the contract. It’s not about a calendar month or two calendar months. You need to research the law.

Caterina99 · 10/02/2023 13:21

Considering how much hassle that tenant can cause you if she was so inclined, and how accommodating she’s been so far, I wouldn’t push my luck over a couple of weeks rent!

Be grateful she’s been a good tenant, is moving out without a fuss and will hopefully return the property in a good condition

These things rarely line up perfectly and I can see it’s annoying to have the house sat their empty, but the alternative is her refusing to leave, not paying rent, trashing your property and costing you thousands in legal fees, repairs and your own housing costs.

Wonnle · 10/02/2023 13:21

Buy a calculator if you really want to get a few extra days rent out of her

Bingbangbongbash · 10/02/2023 13:22

SherbetDips · 10/02/2023 13:16

@Clymene She hasn’t kicked her out or her home. She’s given her 4 months notice to leave OPs property. A property she was renting ..do you not understand how rental properties work? They don’t belong to the renter they belong to the owner.

She has not given her 4 months. Even though notice was served on 22 Jan, it doesn’t apply until the start of the next rental month (11 Feb). It is 2 months, so officially the tenant can leave on 10 April.

So the OP has given just enough notice to get her flat back in time for when she wants it (16 Apr).

Presumably it all ties in to a remortgage on a residential mortgage, instead of a BTL or consent-to-let, so again, the OP has a lot more to lose by being awkward.

I would also hazard a guess the S21 wasn’t issued correctly, so in fact might not be legal. Which would mean even she would need to reissue it today to give a proper 2 months notice and get her flat back in time.

This is very basic stuff any LL should know.

LIZS · 10/02/2023 13:24

Exactly @Bingbangbongbash . The ll notice had not yet come into effect when tenant gave theirs. How formal was the notice you gave op?

MadeOfSteel · 10/02/2023 13:26

There has to be some give and take in this world, OP. You sound like part of the reason private landlords have such a bad reputation.

Original poster
Golaz · 10/02/2023 13:28

Onnabugeisha · 10/02/2023 13:10

You gave HER notice, on january 22. Therefore her tenancy ends on 22 March.. That’s the vacate by date, not the tenancy end date.

On a rolling contract, since LL has already given section 21, the tenant is not required to also serve notice they are leaving. That only applies to a fixed term contract.

Ahh ok if this is legally correct it’s super helpful to know, thank you!

OP posts:
Flamingogirl08 · 10/02/2023 13:29

This happened to me and the letting Agent wanted me to pay up until the end of the next rental period which in your case is 11th March. This is correct as per the contract. However my landlord was very understanding and just let me pay up until I left. Which saved me paying double rent for 3 weeks so was much appreciated. So I guess it's up to you how you proceed. I would imagine it would be a struggle for her to pay rent to you and the new property so you may not even get it from her without a fight. Especially if she has already secured the new property its not like she needs a reference.

Prinzesa · 10/02/2023 13:29

Golaz · 10/02/2023 12:25

Hi all,

I’ve had a tenant in my flat on for a few years. She’s been on a rolling contract since the first six months. She normally pays rent on the 11th of the month for the month ahead.

I gave her notice on 22nd January, that I would need the flat back by 16th April. (Under a rolling contract I need to give 2 months notice, but I wanted to let her know earlier rather than later, to give her some time to sort something).

On the 4th February she informed me she had found somewhere and would be moving out probably around the middle of February. I followed up today and asked if she had a date. She told me yes- she’s moving out on the 18th and will return on the 20th to clean the place.

How much rent does she owe me? She’s already paid until the 11th. She seems to think she only needs to pay for an extra week until the 18th , but in the rolling contract she’s supposed to give me one months notice so I feel like she should pay until the 4th March.

AIBU?

🤣🤣🤣

butterpuffed · 10/02/2023 13:29

SherbetDips · 10/02/2023 13:16

@Clymene She hasn’t kicked her out or her home. She’s given her 4 months notice to leave OPs property. A property she was renting ..do you not understand how rental properties work? They don’t belong to the renter they belong to the owner.

It may be the owner's flat as the property belongs to her but it's the tenant's home. Have some compassion for a tenant who is behaving very reasonably .

Ketchupwee · 10/02/2023 13:30

BreadwinneBaker · 10/02/2023 12:46

I followed up today and asked if she had a date. She told me yes- she’s moving out on the 18th and will return on the 20th to clean the place.

Eh, she has a logic fail here surely...

She's not "moving out" on the 18th. If she's coming back days later to clean up the place and let herself back in.

Am I missing something?

Well clearly she is moving her stuff out on 18th and coming back on 20th to clean. It really isn't that hard to understand

C8H10N4O2 · 10/02/2023 13:30

Golaz · 10/02/2023 12:50

Oh no I was never suggesting she pay until April, but I thought she needed to give me one month of leaving earlier, so was going to suggest 4th March. It sounds like legally she technically owes me until 11th March.

Show quote history

Seriously you are the LL, its your legal contract and you don't understand how it works so you jump on an internet forum for random advice? No wonder tenants get frustrated with hobby landlords.

Whatever your contract says, you have had a good tenant paying for several years and who when being evicted has complied promptly and caused you no trouble over the process. That is worth a lot more than a week's rent to most professional landlords.

SovietKitsch · 10/02/2023 13:31

@Golaz If you want to know the actual answer in law, go and ask a lawyer, or at the very least, read up on the Shelter website. Do not ask MN, this thread is full of very bad advice.

if you just want people to spout about what they think is “right”, knock yourself out…

GrasstrackGirl · 10/02/2023 13:33

SovietKitsch · 10/02/2023 13:31

@Golaz If you want to know the actual answer in law, go and ask a lawyer, or at the very least, read up on the Shelter website. Do not ask MN, this thread is full of very bad advice.

if you just want people to spout about what they think is “right”, knock yourself out…

Doing what is legally right will bite the OP on her arse.

Forgooodnesssakenow · 10/02/2023 13:34

thecatneuterer · 10/02/2023 12:38

@FourBoysAndAFeline have you missed the part that says the OP has given the tenant notice? If the tenant were just leaving because she wanted to, then I would agree with you, but this is a different situation.

LL here. OP, are you out of your mind? You've given her notice! Of course she doesn't have to give you notice too. You should be grateful she's leaving without a long, protracted court and bailiff involvement. At best she owes you a few days rent, but in your shoes, as she's being so reasonable, I'd let that go.

As someone who was also a (reluctant) landlord I totally agree.

C8H10N4O2 · 10/02/2023 13:34

SherbetDips · 10/02/2023 13:16

@Clymene She hasn’t kicked her out or her home. She’s given her 4 months notice to leave OPs property. A property she was renting ..do you not understand how rental properties work? They don’t belong to the renter they belong to the owner.

It is her home. It is no less her home because she pays for someone else to own it instead of herself.

Its this attitude by hobby landlords that tenants should be grateful for use of whatever they deign to provide which causes so much trouble in the UK rental market. Here we also have a landlord here who can't afford to bridge a short gap in tenancies despite several years of steady rental income and doesn't understand their own contract.

Seasonofthewitch83 · 10/02/2023 13:35

Oh look, another landlord with half a fucking brain cell.

Ketchupwee · 10/02/2023 13:36

Ok so my understanding from these replies is legally she actually owes me until 11th March, but that it would be good form to just ask for the days she stays.

No, you issued her notice to leave by 16th April. She doesn't need to give you notice as she is leaving before 16th April, she just pays until the date she hands back the keys.

Clymene · 10/02/2023 13:37

SherbetDips · 10/02/2023 13:16

@Clymene She hasn’t kicked her out or her home. She’s given her 4 months notice to leave OPs property. A property she was renting ..do you not understand how rental properties work? They don’t belong to the renter they belong to the owner.

The word home does not pertain to ownership.

Fuckityfuckfuck123 · 10/02/2023 13:37

Tbh it sounds like she's a nice person doing the right thing.
She hasn't stayed until you've been to court to evict her then had to get bailiffs,
She hasn't not paid rent,
She isn't planning on giving you your home back in a terrible state.

You could well pay more than the weeks rent for an end of tenancy clean, which generally start at the £200ish mark instead of letting her come in that day to clean.

I just think it's fair to let the week slide if you aren't incurring any additional costs of that few days.

Emotionalsupportviper · 10/02/2023 13:38

Hydie · 10/02/2023 12:43

You prob shouldn't be a landlord

I agree.

I'm assuming this woman is a good tenant or OP wouldn't have let her stay so many years. She has kept the property in good order, not cause problems with the neighbours, isn't trashing the place out of anger (as many would) and is even cleaning up! You intend to move in yourself, so don't need tout another tenant in.

Let her pay up to 18th, give her her deposit back and wish her well.

I'm sorry OP but you sound awful!

Deathbyfluffy · 10/02/2023 13:38

LL here, I believe in rewarding good tenants with a bit of lenience where appropriate.
If she's been a good tenant, I'd be happy with her leaving date and the week's rent paid.

Give and take - at the end of the day they've paid (presumably) thousands to you; it seems petty to quibble over a couple of weeks.

Emotionalsupportviper · 10/02/2023 13:38

*to put, not tout

Original poster
Golaz · 10/02/2023 13:39

C8H10N4O2 · 10/02/2023 13:34

It is her home. It is no less her home because she pays for someone else to own it instead of herself.

Its this attitude by hobby landlords that tenants should be grateful for use of whatever they deign to provide which causes so much trouble in the UK rental market. Here we also have a landlord here who can't afford to bridge a short gap in tenancies despite several years of steady rental income and doesn't understand their own contract.

Show quote history

Totally unfair accusation. I already acknowledged it’s her home, I hate that I have asked her to move, but I need a place to live myself. This isn’t a gap in short tenancies situation.

OP posts:
Enviromont · 10/02/2023 13:39

I think if we were back in the renting game and my mates found out we'd moved on but still paying rent on previous home we'd be having a party.

I miss the days of mattresses up against the windows and sending the soborist one down to talk to environmental health at 2am.
We had some great house parties in Brighton. I suspect there's still toothpaste used as filler in those walls and the Loo cistern fixed with superglue and gaffer tape. Fun times.

This particular group are now pretty high up in universities, one was quoted the other day in the Guardian and another does Medical admissions interviews. So don't judge by appearances.