Page 10 | How much does my tenant owe me?

thepatronsaintofbubblewrap · 10/02/2023 16:29

Warrensrabbit · 10/02/2023 12:44

Legally you can push for her to pay until the 4th. Personally for two weeks rent I wouldn’t bother. She’s taken your notice, leaving quietly and coming back to clean she sounds like she’s behaving really well.

My thoughts.

Jaichangecentfoisdenom · 10/02/2023 16:30

This is what "The Landlord" says about your situation. It seems quite clear to me that you should not ask for any more rent than for the time your tenant has the keys to your property.
www.propertyinvestmentproject.co.uk/blog/end-terminate-tenancy-agreement/#section21-periodic

thecatneuterer · 10/02/2023 16:33

Northby · 10/02/2023 14:35

If the lease says

landlord gives two months’ notice
tenant gives 1 month’s notice then that is what each party is required to do and the other party is entitled to.

Therefore you would be entitled to one months’ notice from and including the date the tenant serves you notice. You are able to waive your entitlement and allow her to only pay to the 20th when the flat is finally vacated and keys are returned.

Presumably the lease requires the flat to be left in a clean and tidy condition and you have a security deposit to return to the tenant (and/or deduct cleaning fee from as necessary if it isn’t cleaned) also.

The OP would be entitled to notice from the tenant IF she hadn't already given notice to the tenant. The tenant does not need to give the LL any notice if she has been given notice to leave herself. She is leaving within the notice period she's been given to leave in.

Original poster

Golaz · 10/02/2023 16:34

Alexandra2001 · 10/02/2023 16:26

As you asked what is "fair"....

She has paid your mortgage for many years and you ve seen the value of your flat increase in value, she on the other hand has had none of these financial advantages..

What you appear to want is for her to pay rent on two properties, so you incur little or no financial loss but it was you who gave her 4 months notice, instead of two, she has to go for the first place she sees, rentals don't hang around.

Up to you how you proceed but if i was in your position, i'd let it ride, you ve done well over the last few years and as my financial aware bro said to me once "leave a bit in the barrel for the next guy"

Yes I can see this argument totally. Thank you x

OP posts:

Original poster

Golaz · 10/02/2023 16:34

Jaichangecentfoisdenom · 10/02/2023 16:30

This is what "The Landlord" says about your situation. It seems quite clear to me that you should not ask for any more rent than for the time your tenant has the keys to your property.
www.propertyinvestmentproject.co.uk/blog/end-terminate-tenancy-agreement/#section21-periodic

👍🏻

OP posts:

Roundabout78 · 10/02/2023 16:35

You gave her notice, she’s vacating within that notice period. She owes you nothing.
if you can’t afford it maybe try and get a proper job 😊

MeinKraft · 10/02/2023 16:35

She has to pay a new deposit and all the costs of moving house thanks to you so I wouldn't even ask for the week let alone an extra month. People are right when they talk about greedy landlords!

caringcarer · 10/02/2023 16:35

I'm a LL and as you have already served tenant notice and she is moving out to your schedule she does not also need to serve you notice, because you already did that. She should pay until 20th when she has cleaned and get her deposit back on this date too. Personally I'd be pleased she has moved out to your schedule and is cleaning house too, so would let her off the odd week of rent from 11th until 20th.

thecatneuterer · 10/02/2023 16:36

Golaz · 10/02/2023 15:17

Well no because if I did it wrong- sounds like I probs did - all I would need to do is do it again presumably. It’s still 2 months away.

Show quote history

You didn't do it wrong. TreadLight is wrong (or rather very out of date) here.

Original poster

Golaz · 10/02/2023 16:37

Roundabout78 · 10/02/2023 16:35

You gave her notice, she’s vacating within that notice period. She owes you nothing.
if you can’t afford it maybe try and get a proper job 😊

Sorry what 🤣

OP posts:

thecatneuterer · 10/02/2023 16:37

Scepticalwotsits · 10/02/2023 13:01

Might be wrong but doesn’t notice giving on properties run from rental due date to rental due date (unless the start of rent was a different day)

so if you gave 2 months notice on the 22nd that would cover from the 11th Feb to 10th April which cuts its fine to the needed date of the 16th.

I would take your win that they are leaving early and agree that they pay until they hand the keys over which looks to be the 20th

You're wrong. That changed in 2015. Now it's just two month's notice regardless of when rent is due.

thecatneuterer · 10/02/2023 16:39

MeinKraft · 10/02/2023 16:35

She has to pay a new deposit and all the costs of moving house thanks to you so I wouldn't even ask for the week let alone an extra month. People are right when they talk about greedy landlords!

I'm a LL and I can assure you we're not all like this. I wouldn't ask for the week either in this situation.

Original poster

Golaz · 10/02/2023 16:42

MeinKraft · 10/02/2023 16:35

She has to pay a new deposit and all the costs of moving house thanks to you so I wouldn't even ask for the week let alone an extra month. People are right when they talk about greedy landlords!

Thanks to me 🤣. Ok Should I let her live in the property I bought forever, while the kids and I have no where to go? I mean maybe that would be the fairest thing to do, since it is her home now, but it’s not the world in which we live and I don’t think that makes me personally deserving of the label “greedy”.
I do appreciate the costs and stress of moving house. I’m about to endure it myself.

OP posts:

thecatneuterer · 10/02/2023 16:47

@honeylulu If you really are a solicitor how come you didn't know that the landlord no longer has to relate notice periods to rental periods, and hasn't had to since 2015? And I'm sorry, I just don't believe there is any legal obligation on a tenant to give counter notice to leave during the notice period they've already been given by the landlord. I'd be fascinated to read any legal case that says otherwise.

WombatChocolate · 10/02/2023 16:50

Interesting that 3 or 4 LLs on this thread say they would be appreciative of her moving out to your timescale (and before it) and not charge for that extra week.

It’s something to think about OP. It’s not all about squeezing every penny out of people, but there is always scope for a bit of give and take too.

It’s unfortunate, but posts like OPs do give LLs a bad name and make people talk about greedy LLs. Not only has OP come across as greedy, but also pretty clueless…..I mean who uses MN to find out the legal position regarding rent. It confirms again that there are too many amateur LLs in the market…people who don’t know the legalities never mind the decencies of of being a LL, which is to the detriment of the whole sector.

This whole ‘accidental LL’ thing is crap and a myth and lie that deluded property owners tell themselves to excuse poor Landlording. No-one is an accidental LL. Any property owner has a choice to sell, allow to be vacant or to let. The financial implications of some of these options might not be favourable or positive for some property owners, but they still don’t force anyone to be a LL. And people who choose to let property, who are cutting it too fine and do t have the cash behind them to weather a couple of months of void, or maintenance costs, or who can’t afford to only see the profit when they sell, rather than absolutely requiring it every single month…. Ant afford to be LLs, but in doing it, often make their tenants pay via shoddy maintenance and lack of basic legal knowledge. It’s not good enough.

Im so glad to see severalLLs in this thread who do know what they’re talking about and who say that they would be glad the tenant was Co-operative and not be charging them for that last week. I’d imagine they are also the most successsful LLs.

CrazyCorgi · 10/02/2023 16:51

You should have given her a firm date as to when the two months notice started. The ‘early notice period’ muddies the water a little tbh. I don’t have an answer but you definitely need to learn from this in the future.

maddy68 · 10/02/2023 16:53

You served her notice. She should leave the place clean and tidy or forfiet the deposit.
Ask her when her final date is. And take payment up until it's left in good clean tidy condition. Even if that's earlier than your deadline

CosyBobbleHat · 10/02/2023 16:54

You could be on here asking how to get rid of a tenant who won't pay and has trashed your rental. You clearly have not used an agency to let your property, so you will have to manage it yourself 🤷‍♀️

Original poster

Golaz · 10/02/2023 16:54

WombatChocolate · 10/02/2023 16:50

Interesting that 3 or 4 LLs on this thread say they would be appreciative of her moving out to your timescale (and before it) and not charge for that extra week.

It’s something to think about OP. It’s not all about squeezing every penny out of people, but there is always scope for a bit of give and take too.

It’s unfortunate, but posts like OPs do give LLs a bad name and make people talk about greedy LLs. Not only has OP come across as greedy, but also pretty clueless…..I mean who uses MN to find out the legal position regarding rent. It confirms again that there are too many amateur LLs in the market…people who don’t know the legalities never mind the decencies of of being a LL, which is to the detriment of the whole sector.

This whole ‘accidental LL’ thing is crap and a myth and lie that deluded property owners tell themselves to excuse poor Landlording. No-one is an accidental LL. Any property owner has a choice to sell, allow to be vacant or to let. The financial implications of some of these options might not be favourable or positive for some property owners, but they still don’t force anyone to be a LL. And people who choose to let property, who are cutting it too fine and do t have the cash behind them to weather a couple of months of void, or maintenance costs, or who can’t afford to only see the profit when they sell, rather than absolutely requiring it every single month…. Ant afford to be LLs, but in doing it, often make their tenants pay via shoddy maintenance and lack of basic legal knowledge. It’s not good enough.

Im so glad to see severalLLs in this thread who do know what they’re talking about and who say that they would be glad the tenant was Co-operative and not be charging them for that last week. I’d imagine they are also the most successsful LLs.

this couldn’t be more unfair, but you don’t know the circumstances.

I posted asking for some specific advice; the thread has been helpful. I’m not going to agree that she stays in the flat for free; we have agreed that she pays for the days until she leaves

OP posts:

WombatChocolate · 10/02/2023 16:56

No OP, you do t need to let the tenant live in the property forever. The law entitles you rightly to take your property back and serve legal notice. It also allows tenants to remain beyond that and face formal and legal eviction proceedings which can take a year. This tenant could still remain in the property behind the date you set. You’d then need to start legal eviction proceedings and find they perfectly legally could remain until the bailiffs arrive. At that point, you’d wonder why you were ever concerned that they might owe you money when they agreed to vacate when you’d asked them to.

The thing people are taking exception to, is not you serving notice, but the fact that through most of this thread, all you were interested in was how much money you could legally get out of them, with no recognition of the fact they Co-operated with you in a difficult situation. You seemed to feel absolutely entitled to their Co-operation, rather than seeing it as a positive to be acknowledged and indeed possibly financially rewarded, rather than penalised….your first thought was to penalise and charge rent, not to to recognise their being helpful and possibly let them off a few days. It’s your attitude that’s upset people.

Original poster

Golaz · 10/02/2023 16:57

Golaz · 10/02/2023 16:54

this couldn’t be more unfair, but you don’t know the circumstances.

I posted asking for some specific advice; the thread has been helpful. I’m not going to agree that she stays in the flat for free; we have agreed that she pays for the days until she leaves

Show quote history

Well the points about me being clueless are fair, but then interestingly a lot of landlords and tenants and lawyers have posted and are apparently also not clear on the exact legal position 💁🏼‍♀️

OP posts:

Nixynic · 10/02/2023 16:57

If she has a contract stating that she needs to give you a months notice of moving out, then she has to legally give you a months notice and pay for that full month, regardless of which day she moves out. She informed you on the 4th of Feb that she would like to end the tenancy, so she legally she has to pay for the flat until the 4th of March. I’m surprised anyone else is saying different. The fact you have told her she needs to be be moved out by April does not mean that she doesn’t have to follow the contract and can just move out without giving/paying a months notice.

Nocutenamesleft · 10/02/2023 16:59

Golaz · 10/02/2023 12:25

Hi all,

I’ve had a tenant in my flat on for a few years. She’s been on a rolling contract since the first six months. She normally pays rent on the 11th of the month for the month ahead.

I gave her notice on 22nd January, that I would need the flat back by 16th April. (Under a rolling contract I need to give 2 months notice, but I wanted to let her know earlier rather than later, to give her some time to sort something).

On the 4th February she informed me she had found somewhere and would be moving out probably around the middle of February. I followed up today and asked if she had a date. She told me yes- she’s moving out on the 18th and will return on the 20th to clean the place.

How much rent does she owe me? She’s already paid until the 11th. She seems to think she only needs to pay for an extra week until the 18th , but in the rolling contract she’s supposed to give me one months notice so I feel like she should pay until the 4th March.

AIBU?

She owes you to the 20th when she hands over the keys

It's to the date she hands over the keys so pro rata it

Nocutenamesleft · 10/02/2023 17:01

Golaz · 10/02/2023 12:42

I get what people are saying about being nice, but honestly I can’t afford to give up several hundred pounds just to be nice (she’s not someone I have much of a personal relationship with, although she seems like a perfectly nice woman).

I guess my question is, if I told her she needs to leave by mid April does that negate the one month’s notice she has to give me under the rolling contract?

No she doesn't owe you till April

You gave her notice. She gave you notice in reality. You're not missing out in hundreds of pounds.

Get her to pay till she hands over the keys. If she wants till the 18th. Then that's the day she gives up her contract.

caringcarer · 10/02/2023 17:05

Legally the tenant does not have to give you notice because you already gave her notice. Legally she would need to pay until Feb 20th. Look at Shelter website.