To think that this book should not be sold to young girls?

[WandaWomblesaurus]

twitter.com/Waterstones/status/1623584986740953091?s=20&t=WU0D0fzc6ClGJC5R-gJnuw

Waterstones tweeted celebrating a book that is about transing girls. Here is one of the illustrations from the book.

AIBU to think that this is directly promoting self harm to young vulnerable girls?

I think it’s absolute BS to claim that trans adults who had puberty blockers have the brains of children.

The rest of your disgusting insinuation isn’t worth discussing. Pathetic.

Ah I see. So now even the non-detransitioners are proof of detransition and regret.

You lot are all over the place.

Also you persist in this nonsense conflating desistence from gender issues with gender dysphoria.

But if puberty blockers block puberty @TeaKlaxon , and therefore brain development is stunted, what else can the outcome be? I mean, we don’t let 11 year olds make huge decisions on their basis their brains are nit fully formed. Puberty has a huge influence in brain development, therefore would not pausing puberty also block brain development, or are these magic drugs which only block some symptoms of puberty?

as to the rest of my point, why can we not discuss who might have a vested interest in preventing children from reaching their full cognitive potential?

It takes a certain kind of person to look at those sterilising gay children and think 'yes, these are my sort of people!'. 'Their bodies need fixing!'

The same sort of people that believe that someone whose gender is 'man' needs to have a male body (or as close as they can) or they can't be happy.

Whereas I personally believe that any gender identity can live in any body, as sex and gender are different and shouldn't be conflated. And that if children believe their bodies are 'wrong' then they are being told this by societal influences, and perhaps - just perhaps - it's those messages that are wrong, not the children's bodies.

(and well done to those who realised that my post above isn't claiming that all gay children are being sterilised, not that all the children being sterilised are gay, but is referring to the cohort of children who are both being made infertile and are gay, as in homosexual).

From Helen Joyce's book 'Trans - When Ideology Meets Reality' she writes:

'[Since then], another dozen studies, in various countries, have looked at children suffering from misery caused by cross-sex feelings - now called gender dysphoria. In every one the majority outgrew their dysphoria, and a majority of those 'desisters' turned out gay in adulthood. The most recent, and best, of these studies, published in March 2021, followed 139 boys seen at a Toronto clinic between 1975 and 2009, around two-thirds of whom satisfied the criteria for a diagnosis of gender dysphoria. It found that more than 90 percent of them later ceased to feel dysphoric and became reconciled with their sex, generally before or early in puberty.'

This means that a significant proportion children who, instead of 'watchful waiting', are socially transitioned and put onto puberty blockers, are likely to end up having unnecessary surgery and lifelong medical problems. So why are people pushing for this?

The reasons for adult men who wish to 'identify as women' are quite different to those of a very small minority of children who feel distressed in their bodies (this distress does not even specifically relate to feeling as if they are the opposite sex. Just that sometimes living as the opposite sex helps to alleviate the distress). It is arguable that these men are driving a push for children who don't need to transition in order to justify a range of adult male behaviours.

If this TRA rhetoric didn't mean unnecessary surgery for children or that men were able to legally live as if they were women for all purposes rather than simply not be discriminated against for dressing/ living as they pleased, then women would not have a problem with it. But touch children or try and mess with women's sports, women's bursaries, women's prisons, women's refuges, women's rape crisis centres etc then this isn't going to die.

I honestly hope there's a move towards a more varied representation of female adolescents. Not all girls fit into the sporty, posh, baby, ginger or scary mould. ( I'm showing my age!?) Maybe we can add and encourage more relevant role models including trans, hairy, lumpy, dudette etc

You’re (deliberately) missing the point. Children are being given puberty blockers in the UK. Puberty blockers = no pubertal development = no growth of the genitals, no orgasms, no fertility.

cross sex hormones are given from 16 in the Uk, and a male body, primed for testosterone, doesn’t become sexually/reproductively functional on oestrogen. 16 is still a child, by the way.

Who benefits from these child-like adults, TeaKlaxon? Who wants to be in relationships with them? Does “passing” as a female justify never having an orgasm, never fathering a child and who decides this?

Incorrect. AGAIN.

The abstract says “patient assessment reports” were scanned electronically. These are specific reports to the gender clinic. They didn’t scan these patients’ entire NHS records. Only what they reported in their attendance to the adult gender clinic.

What were the “obviously correct terms” they searched for? We don’t know. How do you know the terms would pick patients’ concerns adequately? This is the sort of thing that comes up when a paper is submitted for peer review, but given this paper has never been published in any form of medical journal I suspect it couldn’t get past this stage. Because this sort of methodology is so incredibly poor.

So a) is true and b) is also true.

It’s a pathetic piece of “research” that you didn’t even know was the source of your original point, have no understanding of despite it being medical student level of research quality. Shockingly, Stonewall has effectively used it to push a false narrative that detransition is low. It’s hard to know if they’ve done this because they are also incompetent at analysing research or malevolent in their push of this narrative.

I’m not sure if you’re deliberately misrepresenting the research base or you’ve just been taken in by Helen Joyce.

There are lots of problems with the study she claims is the best:

1. None of the subjects had diagnoses of gender dysphoria. Some of them met the criteria for Gender Identity Disorder. If those who met the GID criteria, 69% desisted. Not 90%.
2. GID was a very different diagnosis than gender dysphoria. For example, being classed as having GID didn’t require any identification with a different gender. It included lots of gender non-conforming behaviours. So a child who would not meet the threshold for gender dysphoria would easily meet the threshold for GID if, for example, they played with certain toys or liked to dress a certain way.
3. The study subjects were all part of a clinic programme whose stated aim was to ‘decrease the odds’ of adult transsexualism. So we know that both the clinic and the parents of these kids were predisposed to think of being trans as something negative that should be ‘cured’. The clinic has since been shut down.

And of course beyond all of that, no one here is arguing that all children with gender dysphoria should receive puberty blockers. In Tavistock only 6% of kids on their books were prescribed puberty blockers.

So even if you bought these bogus stats, it still wouldn’t explain why we should deny medical treatment to all children - even the 6% with the most severe and lasting dysphoria.

In the UK and Australia children have to be 16 before they start wrong sex hormones. In the US, younger children have been started on them.

WPATH’s SoC states - after being released and then retracted to add this part - that there should be no lower age limit for any treatment, and children as young as 10 or 11 can start testosterone/oestrogen.

There is no evidence of the brain impact of puberty blockers. The Royal Children’s Hospital Melbourne have employed a PhD candidate to look into this. They employed this person a year ago. They’ve been giving puberty blockers for 20 years.

And of course beyond all of that, no one here is arguing that all children with gender dysphoria should receive puberty blockers. In Tavistock only 6% of kids on their books were prescribed puberty blockers.

Nice try. 6% of referrals. Although that figure needs clarity. We don’t know the percentage of those diagnosed with GD.

Currently in gender clinics all those with GD are offered puberty blockers and/or wrong sex hormones.

Oh look, how timely:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/e04f4958-aa26-11ed-8a03-b2faadede0c5?shareToken=b9b716f7aee6d980bd85215ac0b54f6f

More than 1,000 children were referred for puberty blockers at an experimental gender clinic where concerns were ignored to preserve a “gold dust” NHS contract, a new book claims.
^^
Former clinicians at the Gender Identity Development Service (Gids), part of the Tavistock and Portman NHS Trust in London, have detailed how some “incredibly complex” children were placed on medication after one face-to-face assessment, despite many having a variety of mental health or family background problems.

^^

GID was a very different diagnosis than gender dysphoria. For example, being classed as having GID didn’t require any identification with a different gender. It included lots of gender non-conforming behaviours. So a child who would not meet the threshold for gender dysphoria would easily meet the threshold for GID if, for example, they played with certain toys or liked to dress a certain way.

@TeaKlaxon but isn’t that the point now - that Stonewall etc say any child who displays gender non-conforming behaviour (ie plays with the ‘wrong toys’) are ‘trans’? You’re making a distinction between two terms that aren’t actually distinguished between by mainstream trans proponents or even, say, the Scottish government. Once someone - whether a child or adult- says they’re ‘trans’ or act in any gender non-conforming way then apparently that’s what they are…?

So a child can be pushed down a medical pathway without even being diagnosed with official ‘gender dysphoria’. And let’s be under no misapprehension that that is happening. Did you see the link earlier to the whistle blowing by an American counsellor?

Didn’t stone one once claim children as young as two were able to decide if they were trans. They quickly memory holed that though….

When it says 'imaginary willy' aren't we all meant to believe that it is a 'real willy'?!

I think that raises a good point.

If it was a picture of a male child presumably it would just say my girl penis?

Given that the female penis is to be celebrated and welcomed where ever it wishes to go, it makes no sense that young trans people are being encouraged into surgery.

Surely there is no wrong way to be a boy or girl, you know the old fashioned way was best? And where are all these middle aged and older women who now have awful lives because they were denied access to 'life saving and necessary surgeries', isn't it odd we don't hear from them?

The only middle age trans people we tend to hear from are the ones sporting a female penis and wanting to take it where it's not welcome. They're not demanding life changing surgery are they? Why is that if it is so necessary?

The whole thing is vile. Anyone supporting it should be ashamed of themselves.

It’s almost as if it wouldn’t actually advantage middle aged women to suddenly become ‘Dave’. Wouldn’t be able to win any sporting awards in the male category, wouldn’t be any safer in single sex environments. Might get a payrise but it would be pretty traumatising for any children we have and women tend to be more sensitive to that kind of thing than men.
So who does late transition advantage and why…? Why does ‘Dave’ want to become ‘Susie’? What makes it all so much more enticing for men to do this than women?
It’s not really very hard to work it out is it.