To think that this book should not be sold to young girls?

[WandaWomblesaurus]

twitter.com/Waterstones/status/1623584986740953091?s=20&t=WU0D0fzc6ClGJC5R-gJnuw

Waterstones tweeted celebrating a book that is about transing girls. Here is one of the illustrations from the book.

AIBU to think that this is directly promoting self harm to young vulnerable girls?

@TeaKlaxon I took the time to answer your question about breast reconstruction surgery, at length. You just going to ignore that?

As well as ignoring questjons and outright lying about specific facts, you're also ignoring the big, overarching and most concerning question, which is why you are so invested in allowing children to embark on this pathway that you (a) ignore the whistleblowers telling the real story and (b) ignore the voices of detransitioners. Which are going to get louder and louder as this whole horror house of cards falls down.

So you're now claiming that 'detransition' means that you just haven't picked up your prescription from a specific pharmacy for 90 days?

The study is behind a paywall, but another study that examines it says: "Important limitations of this study were that it was unable to assess the reasons why 30% of their sample discontinued hormonal therapy for more than 90 days, the short period of 90 days, and the inability to capture prescriptions filled outside of the military healthcare system. It would be interesting to know what proportion discontinued due to detransition versus other reasons such as an adverse effect of a medication or cost. Of note, the mean age in this study was 19.2 years."

So anyone who moved away (and this is a study of people in military families, where moving away is much more common), just went to a different pharmacy (the median age was 19, so a prime time when subjects are likely to be moving out of parents' homes and out of the military healthcare system) or couldn't afford their hormones are all considered detransitioning.

That is such a broad view of what counts as detransitioning as to be entirely meaningless.

Google them. Should be easy enough.

That is such a broad view of what counts as detransitioning as to be entirely meaningless.

Gender clinics offer such a narrow view of detransition. “Of the ones we can get hold of, who are still having treatment after just a few years, not many regret it. The massive number of people we don’t hear from anymore, we’ll just pretend they don’t exist.”

A very large percentage of original Dutch cohort has been lost to follow up.

So "many" will not be able to chest feed.

Which suggests that some can. Which is precisely what I said, and what the NHS said, and which you claimed was a lie.

That's precisely my point.

You don't actually care if other surgeries go ahead despite having regret levels higher than gender transitioning. It is the height of hypocrisy.

There are only about three people on this thread who aren't transphobes so it shouldn't be that hard to keep track of us.

There are only about three people on this thread who support unnecessary invasive surgeries on healthy bodies of people with mental health problems so it shouldn't be that hard to keep track of us.

There fixed it for you.

300 is a long way short of the initial claim about 5000.

Google what?!

You wrote:

A UK study in 2019 said:

Results and Conclusions
Of the 3398 patients who had appointments during this period, 16 (0.47%) expressed transition-related regret or detransitioned...Study findings are consistent with previous research showing low rates of detransition. Detransition was most often prompted by social difficulties rather than changes in gender identity or physical complications and was most
often temporary. Only three patients made a long-term detransition.

A Swedish study from 2014 said:

The regret rate...among those who were sex reassigned was 2.2 % for the whole period 1960–2010 with no significant sex difference. The risk of regretting the procedure was higher if one had been granted a new legal gender before 1990 (11/15). For the two last decades, the regret rate was 2.4 % (1991–2000) and0.3 % (2001–2010), respectively.

From 2015 in the US:

Eight percent (8%) of respondents reported having de-transitioned at
some point. Most of those who de-transitioned did so only temporarily: 62% of those who had de-transitioned reported that they were currently
living full time in a gender different than the gender they were thought to be at birth...Respondents who had de-transitioned cited a range of reasons, though only 5% of those who had de-transitioned reported that they had done so because they realized that gender transition was not for them, representing 0.4% of the overall sample The most common reason cited for de-transitioning was pressure from a parent (36%). Twenty-six percent (26%) reported that
they de-transitioned due to pressure from other family members, and 18% reported that they detransitioned because of pressure from their spouse or partner. Other common reasons included facing too much harassment or discrimination after they began transitioning (31%), and having trouble
getting a job (29%)

From a review of 57 studies by Cornell University in 2017:

Regrets following gender transition are extremely rare and have become even rarer as both surgical techniques and social support have improved. Poling data from numerous studies demonstrates a regret rate ranging from .3 percent to 3.8 percent. Regrets are most likely to result from a lack of social support after transition or poor surgical outcomes using older techniques.

Which papers are these?

The 5000 figure is referrals to GIDS. Referral is not the same as medical transitioning. In fact, in 2019, only about 6% of children referred to GIDS ended up on puberty blockers.

In 2009/10 the number of children referred was 77, and only 32 were female. In ten years that had gone up to 1981 girls and 720 boys. Back in 2009, 0% of children went on puberty blockers as that wasn't an accepted treatment for gender dysphoria.

6% of 2728 is 164 children. More children placed on blockers in 2019 than the entire number of referrals ten years earlier. In any other field of medicine this sudden increase in numbers requiring treatment would be a matter for grave concern. What makes this different?

It takes quite a level of self-importance to post at 13.57 complaining that you're being ignored because I didn't reply to a post you made at 13.45.

Just how quickly do you expect posters to respond to you before you claim you're being ignored?

Slight tip - you're really not that important.

As to your post, your indifference to regret levels for some surgeries highlights your hypocrisy.

Sure I care. But I can’t divest my energy into those issues. And they’re not my area of interest.

It’s not hypocrisy to only have the capacity to campaign for one thing at a time. When the medical scandal affecting children is finally ended (and it will be eventually), I’ll turn my attention to other matters.

So your answer to limitations in some studies is to assume that just because someone hasn't picked up a prescription that it must mean they've detransitioned.

I mean its a more reliable approach that counting reddit users, but only just.

Oh that's weird - to me, the "height of hypocrisy" is calling people transphobes while refusing to honestly answer a question about your own beliefs. How funny that we all see hypocrisy differently!

You can google any of the text I quoted and it will bring up the studies.

I said that I thought breast reconstruction surgeries should probably be paused if half of women regret them, until more work has been done to understand the risks and benefits.

I said I would support those surgeries being halted. They are medically unnecessary. You ignored that though.

I said I don't have a stake in whether adult women choose a breast reconstruction or not. Whereas I do have a stake - as do all decent human beings - in protecting children from making irreversible, harmful decisions that could destroy their lives.

You ignored that though. Didn't you?

Just like you lied about the figure from the Guardian article. I never ever said that 5000 surgeries are done every year. I said the number of children seeking referrals for gender dysphoria has increased from 250 to 5000 in ten years. Which it has. And that it has gone from majority boys to majority girls.

You ignored that too.

Thanks for posting the evidence that the poster who claimed that 5000 children were medically transitioning was lying.

And above all @TeaKlaxon you've never explained why it's so very, very important that we throw away all our notions of harm reduction, of helping young people to be happy in their own skin, of not making children into lifelong patients, of why we should ignore whistleblowers, of why we should deny the pain of detransitioners, or why you have invested and continue to invest so much time and energy into breaking down ideas of the age of consent.

Every study that quotes low detransition rates relies on ignoring the people who won’t have anything to do with the clinic anymore.

If you can’t accurately assess detransition you can’t adequately consent children and their parents for the treatments. It doesn’t really matter if it’s 4%, 9%, 1% or 30%. If no one knows for sure, there is no informed consent.

I didn't say that. Quote it. Go on then - post where I said 5000 were medically transitioning. You're a liar.

According to a study commissioned by NHS England, 10 years ago there were just under 250 referrals, most of them boys, to the Gender Identity Development Service (Gids), run by the Tavistock and Portman NHS foundation trust in London.
Last year, there were more than 5,000, which was twice the number in the previous year. And the largest group, about two-thirds, now consisted of “birth-registered females first presenting in adolescence with gender-related distress”, the report said.

www.theguardian.com/society/2022/nov/24/an-explosion-what-is-behind-the-rise-in-girls-questioning-their-gender-identity

I said nothing at all about 5000 medically transitioning. I said there were over 5000 seeking referrals. Which is double the number from the year before.

It's all there on the thread. We can see through your bullshit and your lies.

Ok, I googled the first paragraph of text and it led me to Jack Turban’s joke of an article. That’s not a UK study for a start. Is that the one you meant?

You would 'probably' support halting breast reconstruction. But don't have much of a stake in it.

But yet you do have a stake in deciding that gender surgery should be paused.

Except that gender surgery is not generally performed on children either (despite the unproven claims of mastectomies on under 18s above).

So you think gender surgery on adults should not be allowed because of regret rates which are (generously) at a max of 4%, but you don't have much of a stake in whether other adults can have breast reconstruction surgery, with regret levels of 47%.

Yep, that's hypocrisy.

And yes, the claim was that 5000 children are medically transitioning. Because that's what this entire discussion is about - irreversible medical decisions that you lot insist great swathes of people go on to regret. But you got caught out trying to use referral numbers to imply a large number of children are on puberty blockers.

God I'm so sick of these lying liars and the lies they tell, and their sealioning timewasting bollocks. I would so love not to have to waste time on this, but when I'm reading the stories of 14-year-olds who tell the heartbreaking stories of how their lives were ruined, I feel an obligation to fight the fight for them.

Let the fucking daylight in on these lying bastards and their fucked-up, insane campaign to destroy the futures of adolescent girls.

The second paragraph brings up this study, from Sweden looking at transsexuals from 1960 to 2010:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24872188/

Not relevant at all. Massively different population. Different treatments. And Sweden has stopped puberty blockers for children.