To think the adoration of Zelensky in the UK feels very wrong?

[WarWhatIsItGoodFor]

Exactly that. Why are UK politicians lapping it all up and hanging on to his every word? The laughter from MPs when he said he enjoyed English tea but now wants English planes… in what sense is that funny? He is wanting war planes to cause more bloodshed, death and destruction. I hope this doesn’t lead to Russian retaliation.

It stole 5 times more these last couple of years with all those gov contracts going to their mates, how much did us plebs pay for "track n trace" how much did big pharma steal from our taxes? NHS is now a joke and seriously unfit for purpose. Jeremy Corbyn warned us what would happen yet folk wanted that narcisistic bastard Johnson, had the nation voted for Corbyn we would most likely not be in this idiotic mess.

Lets be honest, he only came to get more free stuff Well of course he did. He isn’t travelling to all these different countries to do a bit of sightseeing and try some new restaurants. He’s not pretending his plane was just passing Gatwick so he thought he’d drop in on Rishi and see how he’s settled in while he was in the area, ffs.

I’m quite sure that Putin will use any help given by us as justification to escalate, but I think he would have done that anyway. He can’t withdraw from Ukraine without being globally humiliated. This is a man who likes to make out he arm wrestles with bears at the weekend. He’s never going to back down. And what happens if Ukraine just roll over and submit? Do you think Putin is going to say ‘lovely, I’m happy at last and promise not to invade or threaten anywhere else’?

@ReleaseTheDucksOfWar Actually I don't think the banning of Russian in Ukrainian schools was any more acceptable than the Russians doing the same in reverse. We have Welsh medium schools. The Russian language is spoken by so many Ukrainians that it should be recognised as one of Ukraine's official languages. That way you enfranchise people.

The people dying in Ukraine are dying because of Putin, he caused the war, the blame is squarely on his shoulders.

"Do you have anything to support your statement?"
"Yes the fact it's true. The fact it is utter sensationalist bollocks to claim that"

According to
news.sky.com/story/treasury-signals-no-new-money-for-defence-despite-recognising-need-to-rearm-amid-ukraine-war-defence-sources-say-12804037

"As things stand, the army would already run out of ammunition within a few days if called upon to fight and would take up to 10 years to field a modern warfighting division of some 25,000 to 30,000 troops."
But I suppose Ben Wallace, Lord George Robertson, the sources in UK defence and Sky News are all indulging in sensationalist bollocks.....because you said so. 🤔

This is so interesting. I always thought the adoration of Winston Churchill in the US during the war in Europe felt very wrong. After all there wasn't much at stake at all for the US - was there?

@randomchap that attitude doesn't help end it or save lives.

I don't care what you think.

I don’t think the adoration of Zelensky is particularly surprising - he’s a corrupt leader of a corrupt Western country and probably got on very well with our own leadership. The people on here pointing out that he was not an admirable figure before the invasion and that there were huge issues with Ukraine’s state and civil society aren’t wrong.

However, I don’t think that means we shouldn’t give him weapons. Or that he hasn’t done some admirable things in terms of leading his country during this crisis.

Russia’s aggression will not end with Ukraine and NATO is better off with a Russian war being fought in Ukraine by Ukrainians than in one of its own countries by our own people.

What was he supposed to do? Welcome Putin with open arms? Russian soldiers have murdered and raped civilians in pursuit of subjugation of a sovereign nation. Give him the tools to do the job. Otherwise we will have Russia on our doorstep. What then? Give in to avoid bloodshed? Live under Putins Jackboot? No we need to draw the line in the sand now and support Ukraine in beating the evil on their doorstep.

Yea do you know why Ukraine is corrupt? Because they are still trying to wheedle out all the old soviets who keep the corruption wheel turning. Much like the Baltic states Ukraine has Russian and USSR supporters embedded within it - major political parties in all these countries are Russian. Russians were dispersed all over Soviet Union to dilute the native population- and they are still living in these countries in enclaves, only wanting to speak Russian and believing that the reunification of USSR would be a good thing. That’s what this is. Putin wants all the previous member states back. Imagine if the UK asked for the colonies back, you would think it was insane. What if we went to war over it? Everyone would think we had lost our minds. But this is the same thing! It’s only been 32 years since the dissolution of the Soviet Union, it will take several generations to clear this mindset. Do not forget that Putin was in the KGB and will still be glorifying the ‘good old days’

@NumberTheory Thank you for a nuanced and thoughtful opinion. I don't agree with you on the weapons front (or at least I am extremely circumspect about giving Ukraine our fighter jets) but I do appreciate your insight and the logic in your argument.

What have you got to say to Putin, @WarWhatIsItGoodFor ? I don't seem to remember Ukraine invading Russia last year.

@ escapingthecity

When one has no argument that would not stand up to any scrutiny, then all that is left is to ad hom. which you have just done.

What you really fear is people being informed.

An intersting read:
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/02/07/vladimir-putin-make-shock-gains/

No they aren't. The worst estimates Ive seen - the very worst - are 250,000 Ukrainian dead/MIA/KIA compared to over 450,000 Russian soldiers.

How about weeping for the poor Ukrainian children who have been kidnapped from homes, hospitals, orphanages, away from their mothers and families and forcibly adopted against their wills? ;)

Just incidently reading the Zelensky's popularity was waning? oooh do show the article. Really? how very strange that you happened to come to that conclusion.

Are you aware that in Poland Russian bots are claiming that villages have taken down their pro-Ukrainian flags. But when you Google those villages ... they don't exist? Does your town exist? Really?

it is like our civic leaders were forcing folk to stand with the nazis..... sorry, you might want to realise that Putin has a track record of standing with neo-nazis rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentary/if-russia-serious-about-de-nazification-it-should-start-home
The Azov regiment started off with a couple of neo-nazis who were then thrown out and it's become non-rightwing and non-fascist. Unlike Putin's Russia.

Yep it’s Soviet Union all over again. Russia did this before and Putin is trying to do it again. Ukraine has already been through this over 100 years ago. If you’re interested and want to feel sick to your stomach look up the Ukraine famine. See what Stalin did go these people. They concluded that 6-9 million people died - that isn’t famine, it’s genocide.

This thread is just propaganda isn’t it?

It. Wasn't. Banned. It's simply that Ukraine didn't teach in Russian any more.

If you're concerned about enfranchisement, try talking to Russia about ceasing to forbid the hryvnia in Ukraine, burning Ukrainian books in Ukraine, deporting Ukrainian children, razing Ukrainian towns and cities and saying that Ukraine is nothing but a Russian satellite.

Surely that would be reasonable? Ukraine being able to be Ukrainian, without being devastated?

Nazi ideology is invading your neighbours then torturing and murdering them. That’s what Putin does.

@ReleaseTheDucksOfWar
LOL

Behave yourself with that propaganda. can be picked apart in seconds, like it or not people are starting to see the reality.

So a country led by someone who is actually Jewish is a Nazi state, but Putin doesn't come in for your criticism (and yes, I do know the WW2 history)

And me

Wtaf? He is leading his country, superbly, in what his 'poor people' want i.e to stay Ukrainian. What do you think the alternative is - roll over and give in to a psycopathic bully?