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To think the adoration of Zelensky in the UK feels very wrong?

713 replies

WarWhatIsItGoodFor · 08/02/2023 21:18

Exactly that. Why are UK politicians lapping it all up and hanging on to his every word? The laughter from MPs when he said he enjoyed English tea but now wants English planes… in what sense is that funny? He is wanting war planes to cause more bloodshed, death and destruction. I hope this doesn’t lead to Russian retaliation.

OP posts:
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Spambod · 09/02/2023 12:08

I’m calling bs on you op. I recognise the language and the subsequent supporting posts. Reminds me of pro Russian posters on Facebook. Your similar style and slight overuse of English type phrasing is a bit of a giveaway for me. The slightly frantic dramatic style. I don’t feel you are a genuine poster.

ExistenceOptional · 09/02/2023 12:09

Natsku · 09/02/2023 12:05

Some people are paid to disseminate Russian propaganda, others do it for free, because they believe it.

I have a friend who keeps getting her posts removed on facebook because she shares Russian propaganda full of lies. I know she is not being paid, she is simply the equivalent of those QAnon people who believe the lies they are being told.

Natsku · 09/02/2023 12:12

ExistenceOptional · 09/02/2023 11:02

Sweden and Finland have applied to join NATO because they are concerned that Putin may try to invade them next.

Yup. Prior to the invasion most Finns, myself included, were against joining NATO and now the vast majority are absolutely for it. We've learnt just how important NATO is.

Iseered · 09/02/2023 12:14

We should not be escalating this war. It's being going on for years and no way should they get planes. Too long to write it all here but on the one hand we are told Russia always planned to take over the world/the West/3rd World War blah blah whilst simultaneously by the same people being told Russia are so crap they can't hold a few Ukraine regions. Laughable.
We are supposed to be crying for corrupt Ukrainian far right oligarchs, who made their money illegally through selling/controlling ex Russian state assets, when Russia blows up their power stations and then cheer leading them as they sue Russia. No.
All the while freezing in our homes whilst destroying our economy. No thanks not my war.
Meanwhile children starve to death and women's lives are destroyed in Afghanistan who we abandoned.

Autumnnewname · 09/02/2023 12:16

Iseered · 09/02/2023 12:14

We should not be escalating this war. It's being going on for years and no way should they get planes. Too long to write it all here but on the one hand we are told Russia always planned to take over the world/the West/3rd World War blah blah whilst simultaneously by the same people being told Russia are so crap they can't hold a few Ukraine regions. Laughable.
We are supposed to be crying for corrupt Ukrainian far right oligarchs, who made their money illegally through selling/controlling ex Russian state assets, when Russia blows up their power stations and then cheer leading them as they sue Russia. No.
All the while freezing in our homes whilst destroying our economy. No thanks not my war.
Meanwhile children starve to death and women's lives are destroyed in Afghanistan who we abandoned.

We're not escalating this war

Putin can stop anytime he wants

ExistenceOptional · 09/02/2023 12:17

@Iseered So better to allow Russia to continue taking over other countries and be dragged into a major world war? That is what will happen. Appeasement does not work.
Countries are supporting Ukraine through self interest. Our government do not care about Ukraine, they care about Britain.

DismantledKing · 09/02/2023 12:17

Iseered · 09/02/2023 12:14

We should not be escalating this war. It's being going on for years and no way should they get planes. Too long to write it all here but on the one hand we are told Russia always planned to take over the world/the West/3rd World War blah blah whilst simultaneously by the same people being told Russia are so crap they can't hold a few Ukraine regions. Laughable.
We are supposed to be crying for corrupt Ukrainian far right oligarchs, who made their money illegally through selling/controlling ex Russian state assets, when Russia blows up their power stations and then cheer leading them as they sue Russia. No.
All the while freezing in our homes whilst destroying our economy. No thanks not my war.
Meanwhile children starve to death and women's lives are destroyed in Afghanistan who we abandoned.

‘I don’t know the difference between Russia and the USSR. I am very intelligent.’

PerkingFaintly · 09/02/2023 12:17

More from Ukraine Explainers:

A Mini-Guide to Russian Imperialism
And Why Ukrainian Fight is an Anti-Colonial Resistance
[...]
Imperialism is usually associated with conquering and exploiting distant nations located oceans away from the empire.
But Russia's conquests were different. Russia always expanded its territory by invading neighbouring states. That way, they have gradually collected a lot: from Finland to the Caucasus, from Crimea to the islands bordering Japan.
In all these lands lived non-Russian (and non-Slavic in many cases) nationalities with their own languages, religion, culture, and history. And they were subjected to similar extermination and assimilation strategies as the colonies of Britain, France, or Spain.

But what about the USSR? It was Anti-Imperialist, right?
Not really. USSR's anti-imperialism was mostly directed against the West and its expansion. But when it came to Russian imperialism at home, it was never really recognized or challenged.
After the fall of the Russian Empire, many former colonies declared independence and proclaimed sovereign socialist republics. This was never an option for Moscow. In 1817-1921, the Soviet army violently oppressed most of these states. Finland, Poland, and the Baltic states managed to keep their independence, but most colonies were conquered back.
Ukraine fought for independence between 1917 and 1921 but fell eventually.[...]

Life under the Soviet regime was far from peaceful.
In the 1920s, Ukraine enjoyed a revival of modern art and literature. But 90% of these cultural leaders were sent to the Gulag or executed in the 1930s, becoming known as the Executed Renaissance.
In 1932-1933, the state-managed Holodomor famine hit the Ukrainian rural population. Around 4 million people died from starvation just to fulfill the mad ambitions of Moscow. Soviets kept these events secret until late 1980s.
In 1944, after taking back Crimea from Nazi Germany, USSR deported all Crimean Tatar population (200,00 people) to Central Asia, killing thousands in process. [...]

Since 1991, Russian has instigated numerous military assaults on its former colonies: Moldova in 1992, Georgia in 2008, and Ukraine in 2014. [...]

Why Russian Imperialism is so dangerous
Western imperialism is recognized, studied, and constantly challenged around the globe. Russia, on the contrary, never faced its imperialism internally or externally.
As a result, Russians don't just feel no shame about the history of Russian atrocities. They are proud of them, and they want more. That's why Russia has gone completely fascist in the last 20 years. Putin's rule is based on the idea of the rebirth of Russian imperial greatness, and Ukraine is at the centre of it.
That's why Russians feel they have an inherent right to dominate Ukraine and other post-Soviet countries. And that's why for them, the rejection of Russian dominance anywhere automatically means "Russophobia" worthy of invasion.[...]
Ukraine is fighting for existence. It is defending against centuries-long oppression, and it needs all the help to survive.
It's not just Putin who wages this war. Russians are largely running on unchecked imperialistic thinking and want to completely reboot the empire.
Russia will not agree to anything like the "neutrality of Ukraine" or independence of just Donbas. Only complete dominance over Ukraine will be enough for Russia.
The ultimate way to achieve peace in Europe is to defeat Russian and let it desintegrate as an empire once and for all. Any compromise would mean the Russian neo-imperial machine will try to fight back later.

BashirWithTheGoodBeard · 09/02/2023 12:17

ExistenceOptional · 09/02/2023 12:09

I have a friend who keeps getting her posts removed on facebook because she shares Russian propaganda full of lies. I know she is not being paid, she is simply the equivalent of those QAnon people who believe the lies they are being told.

Yes, one thing this war has achieved is it's brought together a coalition of the most gullible people from both the far left and far right.

Natsku · 09/02/2023 12:18

ExistenceOptional · 09/02/2023 12:09

I have a friend who keeps getting her posts removed on facebook because she shares Russian propaganda full of lies. I know she is not being paid, she is simply the equivalent of those QAnon people who believe the lies they are being told.

Yup. Its sad when its someone who has simply fallen for propaganda, its aggravating when its someone who has the ability to recognise propaganda but because it fits in with their beliefs e.g. the Stop The War lot don't recognise it in this instance and think its genuine. They don't stop to wonder why their talking points are the same as the Kremlin talking points because they are so convinced they are right.

londonrach · 09/02/2023 12:20

I support the Ukraine and their president....they didn't start this war and been so brave. Just wish it was over as even the Russian boys in those tanks don't want to be in this war...it's a war no one wants. Yabu

Wiluli · 09/02/2023 12:21

Autumnnewname · 09/02/2023 12:16

We're not escalating this war

Putin can stop anytime he wants

We are and we run the risk of escalating it so much that there is no return . Are you really willing to start a potential nuclear war ( that Britain might be an easy target ) to maintain a war that should be de escalated ? Because by giving them planes that is exactly what we are at risk .
putin as much as a lunatic as he is will still crumble to pressure and there is a lot of important people in Russia unhappy with this war .
the idea that he will simply remove troops without negotiations is ludricous , he has no conscience, and he has lots of young men he can force into war to die . For everyone’s sake , we should all be pushing to peace talks

DanseAvecLesLoup · 09/02/2023 12:23

Iseered · 09/02/2023 12:14

We should not be escalating this war. It's being going on for years and no way should they get planes. Too long to write it all here but on the one hand we are told Russia always planned to take over the world/the West/3rd World War blah blah whilst simultaneously by the same people being told Russia are so crap they can't hold a few Ukraine regions. Laughable.
We are supposed to be crying for corrupt Ukrainian far right oligarchs, who made their money illegally through selling/controlling ex Russian state assets, when Russia blows up their power stations and then cheer leading them as they sue Russia. No.
All the while freezing in our homes whilst destroying our economy. No thanks not my war.
Meanwhile children starve to death and women's lives are destroyed in Afghanistan who we abandoned.

I believe this is what is called a 'word salad'.

ScrollingLeaves · 09/02/2023 12:24

For everyone’s sake , we should all be pushing to peace talks
i.e. genocide of Ukraine

Iseered · 09/02/2023 12:26

BashirWithTheGoodBeard · 09/02/2023 12:04

If anyone thinks Russia would stop at the Ukraine/Poland border, they are deluded and that is why Europe are helping him as they are

Correct. Nearly all European counties recognise that helping Ukraine is in their own self interest too.

Europe are doing it in the hopes of exploiting trade and energy. I think it's hilarious people think Russia would head deeper into Europe. That is propaganda to make sure all of us, whilst struggling, keep supporting this war and hopefully send a few planes.

ScrollingLeaves · 09/02/2023 12:26

Sorry, I forgot to show that was in response to Wiluli · Today 12:21’s post.

DismantledKing · 09/02/2023 12:27

Iseered · 09/02/2023 12:26

Europe are doing it in the hopes of exploiting trade and energy. I think it's hilarious people think Russia would head deeper into Europe. That is propaganda to make sure all of us, whilst struggling, keep supporting this war and hopefully send a few planes.

Tell that to the people that live in the Baltic countries and Poland. See what they think of your ignorance.

Autumnnewname · 09/02/2023 12:27

@Iseered You don't know many mainland Europeans, do you?

BashirWithTheGoodBeard · 09/02/2023 12:28

Wiluli · 09/02/2023 12:21

We are and we run the risk of escalating it so much that there is no return . Are you really willing to start a potential nuclear war ( that Britain might be an easy target ) to maintain a war that should be de escalated ? Because by giving them planes that is exactly what we are at risk .
putin as much as a lunatic as he is will still crumble to pressure and there is a lot of important people in Russia unhappy with this war .
the idea that he will simply remove troops without negotiations is ludricous , he has no conscience, and he has lots of young men he can force into war to die . For everyone’s sake , we should all be pushing to peace talks

No. You and the people who advance this argument are the ones who are putting us all at further risk. Or at least you would be if your views weren't minority ones.

Because of what Putin is, there is no possibility of giving him a bit of what he wants to pacify him. We've tried that already, Russia were allowed to start multiple land wars in Europe without the West really doing anything much. And that approach failed. It only emboldened Putin. It follows that more of the same would embolden him further. He's not playing with logic. People like that can't be appeased, only beaten. Otherwise this will keep happening, and the price we have to pay becomes higher.

The potential nuclear war stuff also doesn't wash, a year in. Russia have had loads of pretexts to use a nuke, and they haven't. Every time Ukraine is given anything by the West and/or retakes some territory, there's always someone ghouling about nuclear weapons, and it never happens. The fact is, they've been given ample excuse already, and they haven't because they don't want to.

Natsku · 09/02/2023 12:29

Iseered · 09/02/2023 12:26

Europe are doing it in the hopes of exploiting trade and energy. I think it's hilarious people think Russia would head deeper into Europe. That is propaganda to make sure all of us, whilst struggling, keep supporting this war and hopefully send a few planes.

Europe is doing it despite the cost and inconvenience to us, because we know how much worse it might be if Russia succeeds in Ukraine. You don't think Russia would head deeper into Europe? Bet you also didn't think they'd invade Ukraine.

BashirWithTheGoodBeard · 09/02/2023 12:29

Iseered · 09/02/2023 12:26

Europe are doing it in the hopes of exploiting trade and energy. I think it's hilarious people think Russia would head deeper into Europe. That is propaganda to make sure all of us, whilst struggling, keep supporting this war and hopefully send a few planes.

You should get in touch with the Finnish and Swedish governments and offer them your expertise on a consulting basis.

daytriptovulcan · 09/02/2023 12:34

So if killers, criminals and rapists took over your town, and locked you in the cellar, you wouldn't ask for help?
He's asking for what he needs to liberate his people. His cause is righteous.

Autumnnewname · 09/02/2023 12:34

ScrollingLeaves · 09/02/2023 12:24

For everyone’s sake , we should all be pushing to peace talks
i.e. genocide of Ukraine

Funny how the pushing for peace is always aimed at Ukraine. Never russia

Iseered · 09/02/2023 12:35

ExistenceOptional · 09/02/2023 12:17

@Iseered So better to allow Russia to continue taking over other countries and be dragged into a major world war? That is what will happen. Appeasement does not work.
Countries are supporting Ukraine through self interest. Our government do not care about Ukraine, they care about Britain.

I don't believe that will happen. And I do blame Ukraine, the EU, the US and the West for not doing more before Russia invaded. Maybe it would not have made a difference but we will never know.
Russia raised concerns for example about having an EU land border Their concerns were pretty much identical to the concerns the EU had about a land border in Ireland. Yet Russia were unreasonable twats to have concerns whilst the EU were totally justified with theirs. Hypocrisy.

CTRALTDEL · 09/02/2023 12:37

Sorry, OP,but I think he's incredibly brave. You know he could be safely governing in exile right now, and no -one would judge him for it, but is staying with his people while the Russian's do there outmost to kill him?

Peace would be great, but I don't think it's the Ukraine who don't want peace.

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