Even Vera 😓

[Wavingnotdowning]

Even Vera 😓

Just watching tonight's Vera. Obviously men should be allowed in womens' hostels. Daren't make a comment out loud as the teenagers have swallowed woke hook line and sinker.

You have no idea what this mum believed or not. You have applauded a man emotionally blackmailing their mother.

It is also you trying to draw a comparison between having a homosexual child and a child who believes they are the opposite sex. It is a false comparison. There are plenty of more correct comparisons yet you have resorted to using one that frames the situation incorrectly.

Why?

Being trans is not like being LGB except for the % of trans people who are homosexual or bisexual.

Hellof thanks for articulating so much better than I would have

Apologies for incorrect user name spelling

I mean, they’re not teens - the sons were 20 and 22 at the time.

And they’d already stuck it out through five years.

And they didn’t cancel their mum - they drew a line and said if you can’t at least call him by preferred pronouns then we don’t want to be with you.

And she decided that was ok and now uses his pronouns, so they’re all a family.

That’s not emotional blackmail or abuse. That’s the reality of human relationships where there are healthy boundaries.

You have no idea what this mum believed or not.

I repeat, this is the case with every Mumsnet thread ever. By definition, we never get both sides of the story. Yet somehow AIBU threads run to hundreds of responses, rather than just a single “Sorry, can’t help; I’d need your husband’s/daughter’s/MIL’s side before I could express an opinion”.

I’m not interested in people who cry “Boo hoo, emotional blackmail!” when what’s actually happening is that they’re being forced to make a choice. Happens all the time.

Yes. It is emotional blackmail and it is abuse to coerce someone to recognise an identity based on a belief in some people’s eyes.

A male who believes they are the opposite sex is simply a male who perceives themselves as being how they imagine being female experiences life. They have not changed sex, even with the most extreme cosmetic surgery and hormones.

”That’s the reality of human relationships where there are healthy boundaries.”

Strange that you post this statement. It seems to only go one way in your eyes obviously.

And still you applauded a man emotionally blackmailing their mother and relishing her being additionally emotionally manipulated by her friends.

Because as I’ve said, I disagree that it’s emotional blackmail. I don’t know what you’re failing to grasp about this very simple point.

She hasn’t been coerced though. She was given a choice. She didn’t like either option, but she still had a choice. When your choice is option A or B, you can’t force someone to give you an option C that you’d prefer.

Which kind of addresses your point around boundaries, doesn’t it?

It seems to only go one way in your eyes obviously.

You’re just making stuff up to suit the angle you want to promote.

Setting boundaries does not magically become emotional blackmail and abuse because a trans person or ally is setting the boundary.

Consequences for socially unacceptable behaviour does not magically become manipulation because when it’s in defence of a trans person’s pronoun choice.

Likewise.

You don’t consider this man to be coercing his mother into accepting an ideological belief rather than both sons accepting that sex cannot be changed and finding a solution that worked for the mother and the son with a trans identity.

That is your choice. You applauded their actions.

Others can and do disagree with you and point out where the differences in opinions lay.

And again. The comparison between a trans child and a LGB child is false, misleading and dishonest. Strange that you chose that lazy comparison and not another comparison that is more appropriate.

And again. The comparison between a trans child and a LGB child is false, misleading and dishonest. Strange that you chose that lazy comparison and not another comparison that is more appropriate.

It isn’t false, misleading or dishonest. And you keep referencing these ‘more appropriate’ comparisons without ever once suggesting one.

Fuck. What a choice!! Give in to our demands or never see either of us again.

An Extreme and polarised choice.

Yeah…. That mother was given a choice, for sure.

Fuck. What a choice!! Give in to our demands or never see either of us again.

Like I say - still a choice. What she wanted was a third choice where she got what she wanted all along to magically appear out of the ether. Bad luck.

That same choice is presented time and time again all over mn.

Set a boundary for them, and if they can’t or won’t compromise, go no contact.

This mum chose to compromise and keep contact.

It’s really worrying how completely unable some GC posters are to perceive the exact same behaviours and models with the same eyes when trans people are involved.

I have been very clear. The comparison should be about an idealogical belief. Including agreeing that some one can be in the wrong body or has body parts that are not theirs.

Pick one.

Being a child who is LGB does not require a parent to believe in something that is factually untrue and impossible.

If the conversation was about accepting that a child was gender non conforming or wanted to change names or find a workable solution for child and parent it would go differently. But instead, this son forced an all or nothing situation.

Being a child who is LGB does not require a parent to believe in something that is factually untrue and impossible.

Funny, then, that there has been gender reassignment surgery for over 90 years. The medical profession doesn’t seem to agree with your opinion.

Exactly, @WaityWTF! Time and time again I see the advice to “go NC” on here - but apparently when it comes to something as fundamental as your own identity, such a course of action is “emotional blackmail”.

So the choice is to go along with a situation that is effectively gaslighting?

Yes. You are right. MN does discuss boundaries. Boundaries based on material reality.

You are here saying that a parent has to agree to support a lie to maintain relationship with her children, and her friends. And you seem to be proud of it.

There are many nuances to this situation. Simply demanding all or nothing is abusive in this situation.

You can continue to draw false comparisons but the situation is that she has been forced to repeat things that are not true. There were other ways to come to a solution other then coercive gaslighting.

But feel free to continue to justify it however you please.

I have not seen MN support gaslighting in any other situation. How you justify that in your mind is up to you. Others will call it what it is.

The medical profession doesn’t seem to agree with your opinion.

Nor the law either.

But still, Helleofabore has determined it’s abusive manipulative and coercive to stick out five years of our own mother refusing to use your chosen name and pronoun and then finally draw a line in the sand.

Go figure.

It’s almost as if there were some prejudice or hostility towards trans people in the mix.

A male with extreme cosmetic surgery and hormones is a male with extra cosmetic surgery and hormones.

I doubt you can find one credible academic paper that would support that any person can change sex.

And few trans people believe they have changed sex. They understand that they can attempt to replicate the features of the other sex, but sex is coded into cells and never changes.

So no. I don’t believe the medical profession doesn’t agree with me. I think you are mistaken.

According to Will, other than a few assumptions of "transphobia" (we don't learn what this means vin reality), mum refuses to accept the new identity (again no details of what this means), Will spies on her online activity and polices her politics.

Then emotionally blackmails her.

Yep. That sounds like a healthy response.

So we'll have to agree to disagree.

And yet, the law in the UK is that there are situations when that legal fiction does not apply.

Meaning that even the law is limited in its fiction.

Maybe you also missed not only politicians, but also barristers and trans people (including barristers who are trans) who also made it very clear in the past month that sometimes transitioned male are not trans, that not everyone who says they are trans is trans, and most definitely there are times when the legal fiction no longer applies.

”It’s almost as if there were some prejudice or hostility towards trans people in the mix.”

It is almost as if there were some prejudice or hostility towards people who support trans people to live their lives but not by being coerced to accept that a person can change sex.

How strange that we read the stories from some trans people who work out a way to have a family work together, yet we have posters here who declare that accepting gaslighting or going non-contact is a valid choice .

That is gaslighting in itself.

Persistent and deliberate misgendering and using the wrong name is rightly recognised in law as harassment founded in prejudice and hostility.

It’s cute that you’re trying to divert attention away from that fact, but it’s still a fact.

You’re also consistently misusing the term gaslighting, which serves to diminish its usefulness and impact in actually threatening domestic abuse situations.

But go you! Keep flying the flag in protest at trans people asking for anything as outrageous as their mum calling them by their chosen name and pronoun.

It is really quite interesting that we have posters who declare that legal fiction is somehow representative of reality, when it is a limited fiction and doesn’t support that people can change sex in any real sense. And that somehow extreme body modification through surgery and hormones can change a bodies coding to change sex, rather than superficially changing the appearance of sex.

It is really something to see people double down on spreading such misinformation.

And who benefits?

We are told by trans people that that don’t deny their sex. Yet we have posters who seek to speak on their behalf to tell us the contrary.