Even Vera 😓

[Wavingnotdowning]

Even Vera 😓

Just watching tonight's Vera. Obviously men should be allowed in womens' hostels. Daren't make a comment out loud as the teenagers have swallowed woke hook line and sinker.

So, just because you and your mates don’t think through the issues and care about them, people who have long identified real issues that we are now seeing played out, eg men trying to access women’s prisons, children who have been sterilised and mutilated in the name of this ideology left with life long medical needs we should just shut up?

Would you have labelled suffragettes as extremists trying to win women the vote?

Where did I say you need to shut up?

What I said was that no one I encounter in RL cares about it to this extent and that in RL people are much more likely to speak as they find/live and let live.

And yes, while I agree with their points the suffragettes were extremists. Maybe you could crack open a history book like you suggested I do with a dictionary....?

I'm not getting into the argument you seem to so desperately want.

A shame they don’t give a shiny shit. I’m sure they will if they ever find themselves vulnerable and in need of single sex services and oh, look, there aren’t any…

It’s not about genuine trans folk who are vulnerable in their own way and quietly wanting to get on with their lives, it’s about men in general. Men who commit most of the violent and sexual crime. And who, if they declare themselves women suddenly have a magical free pass to girls and women’s’ spaces. Mostly aided and abetted by the ‘Dont give a shiny shit’ people like you.

What you’re saying, by turning away, is that you and your friends don’t give a shiny shit what happens to girls and women. Right-o.

You were the one who wanted a debate, yet you appear to not want one when I offer to debate the point with you, because it’s just “too big”

you seem to think your friends are reflective of the vast majority of people. Many women I come into contact with are extremely angry,

i am well aware of the history of the suffragettes thanks (as well as many other periods of history - Early Modern is perhaps the area I know most about but I have a broad understanding of most periods). So why do you think the suffragettes went to such lengths? If they had just sat there nicely writing letters and thinking ‘oh I’m not going to be bothered about this, I don’t give a “shiney shit” about womens suffrage’ you would have a vote?

I don’t want an argument, I want to have a the debate you said you wanted. But when I give that opportunity it appears you don’t? Why? Is it because you don’t have a clue about either side? In which case crack on back to your agnostic mates and discuss shoes or whatever you care about,

You know what she meant by cancelled…not a phrase id use personally

you find happiness in other peoples misery but at least you are honest about it

It's because you're not debating, you're just looking for "gotcha!" moments.

I'm away from the thread now. Enjoy your hate fest, do think on about what sort of message you're putting out into the world when the things you're posting are contributing to hate crimes likes the one in Warrington where a girl was stabbed for being trans.

Tatty-bye.

The things you're posting are contributing to women being hurt and murdered. It is possible for trans people to be safe whilst also recognised as member of their biologicL sex.

Most people are 'live and let live' until the question is asked about single sex spaces and sports.

So, no. I doubt that 'almost everyone' you have encountered truthfully falls into the 'live and let live middle ground. This is a sleight of hand and it doesn't represent the truth.

I am very happy to post numerous polls over the past 2 years that show exactly this disconnect.

"Puts me off so many threads as someone will always make some sort of snide anti-trans comment."

Can you please also show us the 'anti-trans comments' that have been made. Or are you referring to what MNHQ have deleted?

Or are you using your own opinion of what constitutes as 'anti-trans'? I have seen posts that are questioning and angry that women's refuges are accepting male people into them, and that a loved TV character is seeming to support this.

It is pretty topical considering what has recently happened in Scotland regarding prisons.

"What I said was that no one I encounter in RL cares about it to this extent and that in RL people are much more likely to speak as they find/live and let live."

Maybe you are lucky and do not have loved ones impacted by this. I have recently had a female family member in prison. I have a teenager impacted by the sports issues and by loss of single sex toilets. I have in the past had a mother suffering dementia and very ill incredibly distressed to be in mixed sex ward. And I know women who have sought shelter in refuges who are horrified at the thought of sharing with a male, no matter what gender that male is. Why? Because those women sought refuge from male violence.

And you seem to double down on the 'the majority want x' which is actually not true once you ask questions that probe further.

Yet, you seem to want to portray caring about this topic as 'extremist' and you seem to attempting to portray people's concerns as somehow obsessed. Do you ever wonder why you do that? Or have you just not realised that you are spreading misinformation in that 'the majority' comment you have repeated.

Happy to link up the polls.

I actually asked you to debate. I wanted you to engage in a debate, I have a motion to debate, I helped you by showing you the points you would need to address in a debate, I really don’t know how much more willing to debate I could have been.

What you are really saying is. You don’t know enough about the subject to debate it but insist everyone who has an informed opinion about this is wrong. You just want everyone to acquiesce. You clearly have no idea about the issues at stake and (incorrectly) consider yourself in the majority of not caring.

I see OMG that the usual tactics have been used.

Come onto the making accusations that are not true, with all the emotional manipulation points hit such as 'anti-trans', 'hatred', dishonest bad faith interpretations of posts, representing people who disagree as 'angry', 'extremists' and using highly emotive language, leveraging unrelated incidents, then complaints about questions being asked, the wrongful claims about representing the majority (which can very clearly be proved as a lie), another lie about how no one else cares and more misrepresentations and erroneous .... ending with a flounce.

It is so predictable by now. I would think that there are very few readers who have not seen it all before.

It is bizarre that some posters feel that they are convincing others with this type of behaviour. But then again, I think that it might be playing to an audience that is as ideologically driven as the poster doing it. Because I really cannot see any other motivation.

There is no attempt to convince, yet so often there is a special claim to be so much more knowledgeable than all the other posters (although that was not really the case here this time.

I can only conclude that some posters only seek to shame those who disagree. And they feel this is a winning formula. Maybe because the same tactics is how they reached their own conclusions....

Exactly- I mean I actually offered to debate the point, open floor for a person to put their case in a logical coherent manner, to persuade others of their point yet all I got was “it’s too complicated for one person”😀, I’m trying to get a gotcha (pot/kettle lol) demanding answers to their questions and yes all the “hatred”, I’m just trying to spread love.

if people want to criticise, I think the least one could expect is that they are able to defend their position beyond foot stamping and shouts of “because it is”

Oh and the stabbing, the police have said there is no evidence of it being a hate crime. Although it clear that pressure has now been put on the police to try and find evidence it was.

But well done for taking the very sad death of a child and trying to manipulate for your own purposes

I'm not watching it anymore.

If Vera is so concerned about the Victimhood and so keen to lay the blame at the usual caricatures and imagined villains of the post-Blair era Left she could start by getting out of that rambling farmhouse in the middle of a prime bit of real estate, instead of wringing her hands over those struggling to survive on top of each other in tiny flats (except the guy in the dress and the obligatory black eye). What a waste of floorspace!
No doubt once she retires early on a gold plated public sector pension and triple lock state pension she will donate all her surplus lucre to good causes, as all good socialists do.

It's Northumberland where properties are cheap and there is no shortage of prime real estate. I could pick up a three bed barn conversion for under £250,000 and a five bed detached in a seaside town for £400,000.

The most unrealistic thing about Vera is that she can drive from Bamburgh to Wallsend in under 30 minutes

The most unrealistic thing is surely the fact that she’s still a serving police officer at the age of 92?

For those who struggle, it's not "trans issues" (which in itself is a lazy and deliberately vague descriptor) that are important to discuss but actually points like ...

• Young people being lied to that they can change sex and provided with puberty blockers, cross sex hormones and encouraged to have healthy and working body parts removed replaced with pretend ones to support this lie

• biological males allowed to take places in sports and awards shortlists allocated to women

• biological males claiming to identify as the opposite sex to be placed in womens prison accommodation

Unfiltered hatred? My arse.

This is the thing OP.

GC feminists have accusations of transphobia, nazis, etc thrown at them all the time. Also ...

Doxxed online
Threatened with rape and violence online
Visited by police to check their thinking

But we are absolutely NOT ALLOWED to debate. The other side of the debate ARE NOT INTERESTED in solutions that don't 100% centre th the trans population

Teen cancelling mum example

novaramedia.com/2022/12/24/how-i-deradicalised-my-terf-mum/

Still not as impossible as Bamburgh to Wallsend in anything less than an hour. The A1 is a nightmare at the best of times never mind rush hour and if she's over on Holy Island itself she has the causeway to contend with as well.

I see wee Jimmy has fallen on her sword today.

Occasionally there are upsides to the "trans" debate.

He supported his sibling when their mother refused to accept their choices. Good for him. If the mother had refused to accept her son was gay, rather than trans, and his brother stood by him, you’d be applauding him. Why is it different for someone trans?

”Why is it different for someone trans?”

Because accepting someone as a gay man doesn’t require someone to support beliefs that are not based on proven science. It doesn’t require being forced to accept males in female single sex spaces. It doesn’t require the degree of emotional blackmail that this son orchestrated on his mother. Including her friends.

You only have this man’s opinion on what she would and wouldn’t ‘accept’. And he decided to emotionally blackmail her submission to reinforce his own beliefs 100% with no nuance.

You can applaud that if you want to. That is not a loving relationship. That is abuse.

Because accepting someone as a gay man doesn’t require someone to support beliefs that are not based on proven science.

You’ve never heard of conversion therapy then? Only very recently outlawed in the UK. There are still people who genuinely believe homosexuality can be medically “cured”.

It doesn’t require being forced to accept males in female single sex spaces.

Why does accepting someone as trans mean accepting that too?

It doesn’t require the degree of emotional blackmail that this son orchestrated on his mother. Including her friends.

Again, why is it “emotional blackmail” because her child was trans rather than gay? Actions have consequences - and if you reject one of your children, the risk you take is that another may reject you. If her beliefs were that important to her, she had the choice to say she’d stand by them and accept it meant losing contact with her son. She had a choice. The fact that she didn’t like either option doesn’t mean it wasn’t a choice.

You only have this man’s opinion on what she would and wouldn’t ‘accept’.

Welcome to every Mumsnet thread ever.