To think that boys groping girls is not part of the 'the normal sexual dance' but is sexual assault?

[Clymene]

There's an article in the Sunday Times today by a psychologist saying that Me Too has gone too far and lots of teenage boys are suffering.

She said: “I like #MeToo and would like to give the woman who started it an award but I think it has gone too far. Now any boy who puts a hand on a bosom because he is slightly drunk and has not asked is being in danger of being ostracised and shamed. Girls are viewing teenage boys as aggressive predators. So the normal sexual dance that has gone for ever now seems not OK. Boys are losing their feet.”

This woman seems to think girls should stop making such a fuss because boys went through lockdown so they're all very immature. We don't know what she thinks about the impact of girls going through lockdown as she doesn't seem to be interested in them.

If boys lives are being 'wrecked' because they sexually assaulted a girl, my suggestion is that they don't sexually assault girls.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ac7c5012-a40e-11ed-9d5c-69bd3c5b98b3?shareToken=3491fa7737a645108929eebc50b420322_

Yes I too went to gay nightclubs because of straight male behaviour. You did not have to deal with hands on you, arse pinching, slapping whatever. Likewise fetish clubs where you had to seek permission.

Straight men are the worst - I have been sexually assaulted many times. I'm sure they thought it was fine. I didn't.

The 'thrust' of the article seems to be that girls should just put up with being sexually assaulted because boys are incapable of grating them like sentient human beings.

Did you have a different interpretation?

This so called expert writes that boys are being “ostracised, punished or even expelled for behaviour that she describes as little more than clumsy “teenage fumbling”.

Teenage fumbling? Seriously? Boys may have got away with that sort of crap in the past, but that doesn’t mean it was right or acceptable even then. I expect most boys DO know the difference between right and wrong. In the past they’d have probably got away with such behaviour, but now they are less likely to - that’s what’s come as a shock.

Yes, well, the part you have in quotation marks is the plot of a Channel 4 drama.
And I don't think the author mentioned any breasts or crotches being rubbed or grabbed in the school lunch queue?

I don't particularly like the newspaper article. Some of what she describes is assault and cerrainly ought not be condoned. I do think there's a point to be made but I don't think it's communicated very well.

It is possible to be on the side of both boys and girls. To not for a second condone sexual assault or harassment, but not wish anyone to be accused in the wrong either. To not want witchhunts. Some of the anonymous reporting apps mentioned in the article sound potentially dangerous I think. A force for good if used correctly, but capable of serious misuse also.

@Grumpybutfunny
But someone grabbing you IS an assault. Allowing random men to touch you up is not flirting!

This is quite shocking, given the source. In response to PP stating psychotherapists are "trained in one or two talking therapies" - to practice in the NHS it's actually masters level study and clinical practice, typically over 4 years, with continuing supervision, once qualified. Most students being experienced health professionals, with a related first degree. Definately very different to a psychologist, though, I agree.

I agree with whoever said upthread that boys and girls are very confused about this, and that the messages they receive about consent, sexuality etc in the media are utterly contradictory and confusing. There is no clarity about what constitutes an ‘invitation’ . It may seem clear to us, coming from a different generation that isn’t quite as porn-addled, for our children’s generation it is anything but clear.

i have a close relative who works in student conduct / services at a major UK university. She deals daily with issues of sexual assault, date rape, sexual coercion etc among students. These are the cases that don’t make it to the police because the issues of consent that they raise are so difficult to deal with. She says that both boys and girls are utterly confused by the contradictory messages that they receive.

The girls do not know when they are allowed to say no and in what circumstances: after a drink? After a snog? After they’ve already shagged previously? Can they say yes to one thing and no to another? There is huge pressure on girls be ‘cool’ and ‘sex positive’ and open to all manner of sexual acts. And the boys? They have been told so often by so many personalities / porn / media / other men that ‘no’ doesn’t necessarily mean no that they don’t always take it seriously when they hear it. Because she’d already got off with them the night before, right? Because they woke up naked in bed together the next morning? That might not constitute an ‘invitation’ but it’s well into a grey area.

It’s dire and it’s getting worse. my relative is in despair about it at times, such sad sad stories and young lives being ruined.

What was that joke about Psycho-the-rapist?

I think that whatever you call it, whether it meets the definition of true sexual assault or not, its unacceptable behaviour. It's insulting to boys to teach them that they are animals that can't control themselves.

This mollycoddling of boys and children generally has led to nothing good.

Dreadful article.

These are the cases that don’t make it to the police because the issues of consent that they raise are so difficult to deal with.

All cases should make it to the police if the victim is willing to.