To think that boys groping girls is not part of the 'the normal sexual dance' but is sexual assault?

[Clymene]

There's an article in the Sunday Times today by a psychologist saying that Me Too has gone too far and lots of teenage boys are suffering.

She said: “I like #MeToo and would like to give the woman who started it an award but I think it has gone too far. Now any boy who puts a hand on a bosom because he is slightly drunk and has not asked is being in danger of being ostracised and shamed. Girls are viewing teenage boys as aggressive predators. So the normal sexual dance that has gone for ever now seems not OK. Boys are losing their feet.”

This woman seems to think girls should stop making such a fuss because boys went through lockdown so they're all very immature. We don't know what she thinks about the impact of girls going through lockdown as she doesn't seem to be interested in them.

If boys lives are being 'wrecked' because they sexually assaulted a girl, my suggestion is that they don't sexually assault girls.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ac7c5012-a40e-11ed-9d5c-69bd3c5b98b3?shareToken=3491fa7737a645108929eebc50b420322_

They aren't though, afraid to move, are they? I mean, I know they claim to be, because if there's any well deeper than the well of self pity males have when they can't do exactly what they want all the time, I've never heard of it, but let's be honest. The chances that men and boys are held accountable for their behaviour is vanishingly small.

Some of them are afraid yes. Men can be anxious about things too.

It's a terrible article. Full of victim blaming and does address the real issue which is that girls boundaries have been breached and there needs to be a push to educate teens about consent and boundaries.

We have s thread here which I think reflects a lot of the opinions here

twitter.com/safeschools_uk/status/1622197537208733696?s=46&t=W3LbTnmr1sZ335yw8bzH5w

It's a disgusting article.

I particularly disliked the case of the 14 year old girl and 15 year old boy.

Why did that boy not know that touching a girl under 16, without her consent is a social problem. Never mind the law that applies.

The police did not probably go further because they were both under 16 as a matter of policy.

Shitty parenting here of boys.

*does not address the real
Issue.

The article is crazy confusing

it list some horrendous cases that absolutely ARE rape and sexual assault but then goes on to talk about these poor boys losing their education and reputation even though the criminal system is so crap they can’t secure a conviction

it references “accidental brushing in the queue” but I’d bet most of these weren’t accidents at all. If it was an accident the boy would go beetroot and apologise, but no doubt that doesn’t always happen and instead the girl hears sniggers from a group of boys behind her… that’s probably why it gets reported

what planet is she on?

"They have sex at his 18th birthday party when she has had so much to drink that she is almost comatose. Egged on by his friends, he also films the encounter and shares it with them in a social media group." Breasts and crotches being randomly rubbed/grabbed in the school lunch queue.

 That's sheer sexual assault.

It's also nice puff piece for the psychologist and the lawyer cited to get some work out of it.

Boys aren't afraid to move now at all.

Some are afraid that people are becoming more and more aware that the behaviour that used to be brushed off as 'boys will be boys' is actually sexual assault.

Where's your sympathy for the women and girls who literally are afraid to move because they will be sexually assaulted or murdered?

I wouldn't worry too much though, the chances of a conviction for SA or rape are so low that the poor frightened menfolk don't have to fear it ruining their lives.

You are absolutely right and the article is outrageous.

This 'expert' needs to return to the therapy that formed part of her qualification. I hope she's not practicing but fully expect that she is. Reminds me of "Dr" Gillian McKeith. Female misogyny. Lovely. Women and girls are not pets. Men, keep your hands off unless invited. It's not difficult.

Thank you, that's a really good thread.

Funny that they would understand consent if a bloke grabbed their arse or crotch.

This.

Well, I can see you think that's a bad thing, but I don't agree. If it's a binary choice of grope your classmates or be afraid, they jolly well should be afraid.

It was always sexual assault. I was a 60s baby, a teen in the 80s, and I and everyone I know would have considered it a sexual assault if a boy/man groped our breasts, drunk or not. Would we have reported it, probably not depending on where it occurred. Would we have been taken seriously then, hard to say. Boys should be taught to keep their hands to themselves, not sympathised with.

This is utter bollocks. Boys do not get to just grab at girls to “learn”.

As for boys getting confused because of stuff they see in porn, people need to be making their kids aware that learning sex from porn is like learning to drive from the Fast & Furious movies.

They aren't though, afraid to move, are they? I mean, I know they claim to be, because if there's any well deeper than the well of self pity males have when they can't do exactly what they want all the time, I've never heard of it, but let's be honest. The chances that men and boys are held accountable for their behaviour is vanishingly small.

All of this.
Usually they’re just playing victims.
Also boys/men, who hear/read/see about things that happen to girl/women and their first and only reaction is boo-hoo life is awful for us now and make it all about themselves, are clearly part of the problem.

Decent one’s stay quiet, learn, support women and learn to call out other men.
And that is bare minimum.

All of this crap is why I like single sex schools. Girls don't have to put up with this rubbish from boys and their self serving parents.

Thank god I went to a single sex school and didn’t have to put up with this shit (at least fir the hours I was there anyway)

and lol at the poor boys they just don’t understand- yeah they do. They understand that generally they’re bigger & stronger than girls and they understand girls will either get blamed ‘leading him on’ or be told they’re making a fuss ‘it was just an accidental brush of his hand over your arse’

Nail on head.

Please don't make up things about what I think. Why are you talking about binary choices? Of course I don't think women and girls should be groped or harrassed. You get that because I said some men can be anxious?

I wouldn't be surprized if the writer has sons and she thinks they're having a bad time but it's not their fault, all those oversensitive young women are to blame. You see it here DM posts DS has done something pretty shitty but he's such a good boy really and he shouldn't be punished.
All parents want to protect their DC but don't make excuses for them, teach them women are not playthings and if they behave like an arsehole they will have to pay the price

There's a fine line. I would say boy making out/being intimate with girl, then touching her boob, her telling him no, him moving his hand away, is not sexual assault.

I remember boys trying it one with me, and it was annoying and clumsy but I wouldn't want to see them branded as sexual predators for it.

But what you have described is sexual assault. Good god.

The point is the presumption you can touch someone sexually. And no, that is not allowed.