Key in the door syndrome.

[DandelionLady]

Pushing 70. Having some bladder problems. Problem that would have been called in the past "key in the door" syndrome. Have good-ish bladder control, but recently losing that confidence because if I'm bursting for the loo, or in recent times, just standing up from the sofa to go for a wee, I don't have the failsafe control that I once took for granted. I'm in full control until I get into the loo and see the toilet bowl. Of course I'm quite worried about it.
Worried about going out and about because obviously "what if"?

Saw the doctor, and she said it's par for the course of getting older .No treatment required. Also I pushed out a 10lb baby. That's got to hurt!

So I looked on the NHS website, for some help for women with incontinence issues. And I read loads of it, before I got to the bit where the advice differs.
It asks, do you have a penis, or a vagina?

That hit me like a brick. Can't they just say are you a man or a woman?

No. It seems that they really can't. My next door neighbour but one is a GP of 25 years standing, and she says that on a probably bi-weekly basis she has to tie herself in knots in order not to offend

So on a site which deals with (what is almost always a female problem caused by childbirth) post birth incontinence, it asks me if I have a penis.

Well no, I don't. Most men don't have post birth incontinence. And you won't get any penis-havers on this site anyway. . So there's really no need to tiptoe around the subject. My struggle with post birth incontinence has nothing to do at all to do with men. So why ask me, on that site, whether I have a penis or a vagina?

You have all my medical records .I gave birth to a baby which is a small clue. I do not have a penis. It is all in my records dating back to 1960.

Granted I have a deep voice, and whiskers on my chin*
But I am not a man!!

*I don't really have whiskers on my chin. I pluck the buggers out!!
And have always had a deep and modulated voice. For a woman:}

Last time I went to a walk-in for my depo injection (pre Covid) the form was so confusing and tied itself in knots.

What contraception do you want today? <Depo>
How do you identify? Male-born transwoman/Female-born transman/non-binary/Female-born woman/male-born man/prefer not to say/what felt like about 7 other options.

You hand the form in and a nurse has to decipher it. A person born a man cannot have the depo injection, and it just seemed to complicate the whole process simply because the NHS are desperate not to offend.

Somebody was paid taxpayer money to create that form

So you don’t think “penis” and “vagina” are clear?
I don’t think many nursery age children are reading NHS advice about urinary incontinence so I’m not sure why your job is relevant.

Your GP can make a referral to the Women's Health Physios who can teach you pelvic floor exercises.

Also watch your caffeine intake which can make it worse.

Someone born female could have transitioned to male later in life. They may identify as a man but still have a vagina and still have incontinence issues related to that. That’s why asking “are you male or female” is irrelevant.

My God, there’s some bull shit on this thread. I’m surprised I could be bothered to post this. But I have …

The advice you receive about incontinence does not depend on your gender identity. Women are more likely to experience stress incontinence as a result of childbirth and menopause and men are more likely to experience urge or overflow incontinence because of an enlarged prostate. These differences are explained by the differences in male and female anatomy and the treatment is different.

Some people may have surgery to construct the genitalia of their preferred gender but surgically constructed genitalia does not function in the same way and this group of people are likely to need more specialist help with continence problems. It is very important that we do allow people to think surgery changes biological sex; a transman in the US died because they did not know they needed to tell hospital staff they were born female when they presented to the ER with abdominal pain.

OP I didn't know about key in door syndrome but your post has prompted me to do a bit of research which I found very helpful. I've been experiencing the same problem for a couple of years, I'm early 50's and I've not had children. I know it's not due to weakened pelvic floor muscles. I found this which made sense, the more I tighten my pelvic floor muscles the worse the urge to pee becomes.

hands-onhealthcare.com/what-is-key-in-lock-syndrome/#:~:text=Although%20it%20can%20seem%20counter,to%20more%20urgency%20frequency%20difficulty.

I'm going to do a bit more research.

But the nursery teacher didn't write apparently.

So maybe it needs to be more complicated and include if you've had surgery if that might necessitate more specialist help.

A woman can 'transition' to become a transman or a man can 'transition' to be a TW. The latter may no longer have a penis but still have a prostate. That person remains male - humans can't change sex, a male can't transition to female or a female to male.

Ermm... you are aware, aren't you, that we don't pee through our vaginas? If you aren't, that really speaks volumes.

100% this. I have a cousin who is in the middle of transitioning to a trans man and even he doesn’t see why everyone gets so offended. He is of the same opinion as many, women give birth, carry baby not men, and that trans men should not be aloud to get pregnant. They want to be men and should be treated as such

So 'male' would work best for someone with prostate problems, no penis and a 'neovagina', whereas describing in terms of penis/vagina wouldn't. Everyone knows what sex they actually are, even if you wish you could be the opposite.

So on a site which deals with (what is almost always a female problem caused by childbirth) post birth incontinence, it asks me if I have a penis.

Because the site is not purely about post birth incontinence. It's about incontinence in general.

Most men don't have post birth incontinence. And you won't get any penis-havers on this site anyway. . So there's really no need to tiptoe around the subject. My struggle with post birth incontinence has nothing to do at all to do with men. So why ask me, on that site, whether I have a penis or a vagina?

Again, you are wording your complaint less than honestly. The site isn't all about you, it's not just about post birth incontinence, it's about incontinence.

And more to the point, you're 70 @DandelionLady . You don't have post birth incontinence. That's the condition that women have in the months/ immediate year or two after birth.
You have what I have (I'm a similar age) as have many of my friends. An early let down of urine. Our brains see a toilet and let the urine go before we're ready.

Well maybe you could consider being offended?

Are you really ok with the words woman/women and girl/girls being erased from the English language for the sake of a small bunch of narcissistic men who are trying to convince us that they can actually change sex?

I sincerely hope you don’t have a daughter.

YABU to take a serious medical problem a lot of us suffer with, and then make your posts about trans issues.

Bad form OP, bad form.

You are unreasonable to be bothered by this. Asking it that way makes fewer people likely to try to kill themselves. People. Persons. Sentient beings.

I am however offended by you suggesting that urge incontinence is caused by childbirth. I have urge incontinence, did not appear until around 15 years after the last birth and far more closely linked to my obesity. But I'm not going to spend time angsting about it or posting about it, because it's inconsequential to me, but flags you up to me as someone whose views I don't trust as well-researched.

In this example the word man/men is just as absent as woman/women.

I'm not offended and I have daughters/granddaughters so don't bother hoping.

I think that a simple 'were you born with male or female anatomy' or something similar would solve this issue. Because the organs you're born with don't change (unless cosmetically) but if you're male or female you'll always have specific organs which is relevant for an examination of this kind.

This really. And FYI yes men frequently have problems with urge incontinence too.

Haven't read the whole thread but I was sent to the incontinence clinic about 5 years ago (4 deliveries, big babies, and now I am single handedly keeping those Tena shareholders happy! You're welcome, Tena!).

I hear you, OP, I see your point, however... YABU. Lots of men who have prostate issues/prostate cancer, well, let's just say, there's Tena Men for a reason.
Most of the patients at the clinic I attended were men, elderly men.
So I don't think there's much to read into what you've actually read.
There's really no culture war to be had over incontinence. It hits everyone, when it hits. Incontinence doesn't care if you're a penis or a vagina. It will TENA the fuck out of men and women.
<insert evil weak bladder laugh here>

I was secretly hoping, with this thread, that you'd found the magic key that unlocks the longterm solution to pissing myself.

@GrumpyPanda

I am actually aware of that grumpy panda, thanks ever so.

However the material in question is referring to the doctor conducting a vaginal exam as part of the diagnosis for urinary issues.

I think asking if you have a penis or vagina is because advice will differ depending on the type of incontinence. I don’t understand why it’s so upsetting to ask which one you have.

Nobody is saying that anyone pees through their vagina, however people with a vagina who have continence issues will need a vaginal examination to ascertain the cause of their issue. Which is not relevant if you don’t have a vagina. It’s not about gender, it’s the fact that that specific body part needs examined if you have it.

That has NOTHING to do with being trans. They are asking if you have a vagina because they are going to stick a finger up it if you do. It’s unambiguous, how you identify has absolutely no bearing as to whether your bladder building into your vagina could be causing your continence issues.