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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Key in the door syndrome.

115 replies

DandelionLady · 03/02/2023 00:10

Pushing 70. Having some bladder problems. Problem that would have been called in the past "key in the door" syndrome. Have good-ish bladder control, but recently losing that confidence because if I'm bursting for the loo, or in recent times, just standing up from the sofa to go for a wee, I don't have the failsafe control that I once took for granted. I'm in full control until I get into the loo and see the toilet bowl. Of course I'm quite worried about it.
Worried about going out and about because obviously "what if"?

Saw the doctor, and she said it's par for the course of getting older .No treatment required. Also I pushed out a 10lb baby. That's got to hurt!

So I looked on the NHS website, for some help for women with incontinence issues. And I read loads of it, before I got to the bit where the advice differs.
It asks, do you have a penis, or a vagina?

That hit me like a brick. Can't they just say are you a man or a woman?

No. It seems that they really can't. My next door neighbour but one is a GP of 25 years standing, and she says that on a probably bi-weekly basis she has to tie herself in knots in order not to offend

So on a site which deals with (what is almost always a female problem caused by childbirth) post birth incontinence, it asks me if I have a penis.

Well no, I don't. Most men don't have post birth incontinence. And you won't get any penis-havers on this site anyway. . So there's really no need to tiptoe around the subject. My struggle with post birth incontinence has nothing to do at all to do with men. So why ask me, on that site, whether I have a penis or a vagina?

You have all my medical records .I gave birth to a baby which is a small clue. I do not have a penis. It is all in my records dating back to 1960.

Granted I have a deep voice, and whiskers on my chin*
But I am not a man!!

*I don't really have whiskers on my chin. I pluck the buggers out!!
And have always had a deep and modulated voice. For a woman:}

OP posts:
cravingtoblerone · 03/02/2023 07:55

Don't know if this helps, Op but I bought a Kegel8 machine recently andI'm finding it's really helping things on that score...

Redebs · 03/02/2023 07:55

ElephantSlide · 03/02/2023 01:02

Yes OP it’s maddening unthink. Total bullshit.

No one with a dick will have post-birth incontinence. For fuck’s sake.

And I agree with a PP: apparently it’s a hate crime to offend anyone except for women. Anyone can offend us whenever they like and if we complain we’re bigots.

Fuck this shit.

Yep, definitely this!

picklemewalnuts · 03/02/2023 07:56

I think OP can be bothered about two things at once!
She's irritated (as am I) by door key incontinence, has been dismissed by the GP purely for being an older woman who has given birth, and now the NHS page is dithering about with obfuscatory language.

Clear simple language is giving way to phrases about anatomy. It's irritating!

StarsSand · 03/02/2023 08:02

picklemewalnuts · 03/02/2023 07:56

I think OP can be bothered about two things at once!
She's irritated (as am I) by door key incontinence, has been dismissed by the GP purely for being an older woman who has given birth, and now the NHS page is dithering about with obfuscatory language.

Clear simple language is giving way to phrases about anatomy. It's irritating!

What could be more clear or simple than saying 'penis' and 'vagina' when it comes to urinary issues?

Riverlee · 03/02/2023 08:04

Yes, I think @picklemewalnuts has summed up the problems.

Regarding the incontinence, go back and see your gp. There is medication they can give you.

The second issue, regarding the language, then email the NHS and put in a complaint. They won’t change this language if no one complains.

GinClassHeroes · 03/02/2023 08:07

picklemewalnuts · 03/02/2023 07:56

I think OP can be bothered about two things at once!
She's irritated (as am I) by door key incontinence, has been dismissed by the GP purely for being an older woman who has given birth, and now the NHS page is dithering about with obfuscatory language.

Clear simple language is giving way to phrases about anatomy. It's irritating!

If you find “if you have a vagina, the doctor may insert their finger to check for abnormalities” confusing then I’m not sure the internet is the place for you.

PurpleWisteria1 · 03/02/2023 08:07

Oh goodness sake.
why is everyone pandering to this.
The OP is not 70 or incontinent.
OP stop trying to hook people in, it’s just annoying when you want to read an AIBU about something and it’s actually an entirely different topic.

GinClassHeroes · 03/02/2023 08:08

StarsSand · 03/02/2023 08:02

What could be more clear or simple than saying 'penis' and 'vagina' when it comes to urinary issues?

Show quote history

Maybe they should have wrote “wee man” or “foo-foo”? Or asterisked the words out?

butterpuffed · 03/02/2023 08:08

I've learnt something from this thread ~ not about gender, not about OP's particular bladder problem..had to google 'Key in the door syndrome' as I'd never heard of it . Well, I thought I was the only one who wanted to go to the loo as soon as I got home . I'm not alone !

Thanks for the irrelevant title on your post OP 😆

ancientgran · 03/02/2023 08:09

my issue is I see men written everywhere, it's just the word women that is being eroded So why do they mention if you have a penis? If they are asking if you have a penis or a vagina that doesn't add up with treating women differently to men.

QuizzlyBear · 03/02/2023 08:11

My grandad and uncle suffered from urinary incontinence, it's hardly just a female issue.

ancientgran · 03/02/2023 08:12

cravingtoblerone · 03/02/2023 07:55

Don't know if this helps, Op but I bought a Kegel8 machine recently andI'm finding it's really helping things on that score...

I bought a similar device and it has been brilliant. Urge incontinence completely sorted and it had been getting worse. Best £50 I ever spent.

StarsSand · 03/02/2023 08:13

If you find “if you have a vagina, the doctor may insert their finger to check for abnormalities” confusing then I’m not sure the internet is the place for you.

😂 best comment @GinClassHeroes

picklemewalnuts · 03/02/2023 08:13

Well I'm ok with language, though my concentration is shot.

My dyslexic son, and the Iranian refugees I'm friendly with, would prefer shorter simpler sentences.

If someone needs to insert a finger anywhere then yes there's a need to be specific. If they are asking if you are a man of a woman then just say so.

Otherwise it's word salad.

I feel the same way about people using 'myself' instead of 'my'.

It's the medical equivalent of estate agents speak.

This person with a vagina would respond well to a complete refurbishment, but is perfectly liveable with a little cosmetic upgrade.

maddy68 · 03/02/2023 08:15

Well do you have a penis or a vagina as the exercises and treatments are different if you have either. Stop trying to be offended at everything

StarsSand · 03/02/2023 08:16

picklemewalnuts · 03/02/2023 08:13

Well I'm ok with language, though my concentration is shot.

My dyslexic son, and the Iranian refugees I'm friendly with, would prefer shorter simpler sentences.

If someone needs to insert a finger anywhere then yes there's a need to be specific. If they are asking if you are a man of a woman then just say so.

Otherwise it's word salad.

I feel the same way about people using 'myself' instead of 'my'.

It's the medical equivalent of estate agents speak.

This person with a vagina would respond well to a complete refurbishment, but is perfectly liveable with a little cosmetic upgrade.

I'm sure your Iranian refugee friends have overcome bigger challenges than reading the words 'penis' and 'vagina' on some medical information.

GinClassHeroes · 03/02/2023 08:21

picklemewalnuts · 03/02/2023 08:13

Well I'm ok with language, though my concentration is shot.

My dyslexic son, and the Iranian refugees I'm friendly with, would prefer shorter simpler sentences.

If someone needs to insert a finger anywhere then yes there's a need to be specific. If they are asking if you are a man of a woman then just say so.

Otherwise it's word salad.

I feel the same way about people using 'myself' instead of 'my'.

It's the medical equivalent of estate agents speak.

This person with a vagina would respond well to a complete refurbishment, but is perfectly liveable with a little cosmetic upgrade.

Have you read the page OP is referencing? Here is the “offensive” text. The body part is indeed relevant as the investigation directly relates to that body part.

Physical examination

A GP may examine you to assess the health of your urinary system. If you have a vagina, the GP will do a pelvic examination, which usually involves undressing from the waist down. You may be asked to cough to see if any urine leaks.

The GP may also examine your vagina. In many cases of stress incontinence, part of the bladder may bulge into the vagina, which is called a cystocele.

The GP may place their finger inside your vagina and ask you to squeeze your pelvic floor muscles.

These are the muscles that surround your bladder and urethra (the tube that urine passes through to leave your body). Damage to your pelvic floor muscles can lead to urinary incontinence.

If you have a penis, the GP may check the health of your prostate gland, which is located between the penis and bladder and surrounds the urethra.

You may need a digital rectal examination. This will involve the GP inserting their finger into your bottom so they can feel your prostate gland.

If you have an enlarged prostate gland, it can cause symptoms of urinary incontinence, such as a frequent need to urinate.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/urinary-incontinence/diagnosis/

picklemewalnuts · 03/02/2023 08:22

Well they won't be looking on English language internet pages, I suppose. They get help from volunteers at the moment. I had them in mind as I was simplifying the paperwork for an event I'm involved with this week.

Where you need to specify organs, then yes the correct name should be given. Obviously.

When you are asking about men or women, then that's the simplest wording to use.

picklemewalnuts · 03/02/2023 08:23

Ah, cross post.

No, I hadn't read the full text.

ancientgran · 03/02/2023 08:25

GinClassHeroes · 03/02/2023 08:21

Have you read the page OP is referencing? Here is the “offensive” text. The body part is indeed relevant as the investigation directly relates to that body part.

Physical examination

A GP may examine you to assess the health of your urinary system. If you have a vagina, the GP will do a pelvic examination, which usually involves undressing from the waist down. You may be asked to cough to see if any urine leaks.

The GP may also examine your vagina. In many cases of stress incontinence, part of the bladder may bulge into the vagina, which is called a cystocele.

The GP may place their finger inside your vagina and ask you to squeeze your pelvic floor muscles.

These are the muscles that surround your bladder and urethra (the tube that urine passes through to leave your body). Damage to your pelvic floor muscles can lead to urinary incontinence.

If you have a penis, the GP may check the health of your prostate gland, which is located between the penis and bladder and surrounds the urethra.

You may need a digital rectal examination. This will involve the GP inserting their finger into your bottom so they can feel your prostate gland.

If you have an enlarged prostate gland, it can cause symptoms of urinary incontinence, such as a frequent need to urinate.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/urinary-incontinence/diagnosis/

Show quote history

Seems a pretty clear explanation.

Kamia · 03/02/2023 08:25

Because some people identify as a woman but they have a penis. That's why they ask that question. Being male or female won't give them the information they need.

GinClassHeroes · 03/02/2023 08:26

I’d kind of understand that the wording might be confusing if they were asking about headaches and started with “if you have a vagina, headaches may be worse around your period” or something - since the vagina is largely irrelevant. However, if the doctor is wearing you like a puppet I think it’s pretty relevant to know if his fingers are up your rectum or your vagina.

picklemewalnuts · 03/02/2023 08:27

I would start with a catch all sentence or heading.

Examination and Treatment will be different for men and women.
Men will...
Women will...

But I'm a nursery teacher. I like things beat and simole.

GinClassHeroes · 03/02/2023 08:27

Kamia · 03/02/2023 08:25

Because some people identify as a woman but they have a penis. That's why they ask that question. Being male or female won't give them the information they need.

No it isn’t. It’s because they are sticking their finger inside your vagina if you are a woman, or into your anus if you are a man. The body parts involved are relevant.

picklemewalnuts · 03/02/2023 08:28

**neat and simple.

A nursery teacher who can't spell apparently.

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