Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Rape jokes - AIBU?

131 replies

dalecooper · 02/02/2023 16:25

I feel a bit shaken and want to know if I have just made a massive deal out of nothing or if I was justified.
I was talking to a male friend who I have not seen for ages and who I used to go out with for a bit a long while ago. We get on really well and he is generally a really sound guy.
We were talking about men coming onto women and he made a joke about how women dress and I said that sounded predatory. He said that was the joke and he was being sarcastic but he got that I didn't want to hear it and he wouldn't say anything like that again but in the next breath made another flippant comment about rape. Not saying he agreed with it or anything, just a flippant comment which I didn't like.

I said no women find rape jokes funny and that men shouldn't either.
He backed off but then said actually some women DO find it funny and that I should not appoint myself spokeswoman for my gender.

This made me really angry. I thought about it for about an hour and then messaged him to say any man that makes rape jokes or is so casual about it has real issues and that NO women do find rape jokes funny and I was not trying to be any kind of spokeswoman.

I ended by saying to him "Don't contact me again". I have not heard from him since - but it has only been about 45 minutes...

DO any women really find rape jokes funny? I cannot honestly believe that any woman would. Would you have reacted in the same way? Was I being unreasonable?

OP posts:
TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl · 02/02/2023 17:03

I think telling us the words he used might be helpful and we can judge for ourselves.

SpareHeirOverThere · 02/02/2023 17:06

No woman is going to find a rape joke told by some bloke down the pub funny, no. Laughing along not to cause a scene - sure. Funny, no.

I can think of contexts in which you could use humour to approach the subject.

But you were right about guys telling rape jokes.
And you were right about him.

MrsSquirrel · 02/02/2023 17:08

Even if it's true that you don't know what all women find funny, he was being disrespectful by arguing about it. He must have seen you were upset by what he said and he still had a go at you.

He didn't really back off. He had to make it so he was in the right and you were in the wrong.

Chubbernut · 02/02/2023 17:09

By way of an example, I don't personally find the following joke offensive. I think many would agree. Therefore, saying all women or all victims of rape are offended by all rape jokes isn't true. You were trying to speak on behalf of a whole gender and you haven't actually told us what was said.

Every time my partner and I would have an argument, he/she would text me afterwards telling me to go and see Prince Andrew to get help - every time I went, he said he couldn't help me. But my partner just kept on saying it. After a while, I said that Prince Andrew had told me he couldn't help me...then my partner clarified, "no, I said "therapist" not "the rapist"".

StillWeRise · 02/02/2023 17:10

as PP have said your mistake was to assert that NO women find this kind of joke funny
it would have been better to say that YOU don't find it funny, using any of the suggestions above- I especially like saying 'I don't get it' or more directly 'why is that funny?'- also to remind him how common an experience it is for women
as for why some women do laugh at these jokes, that's an interesting question- maybe to appease a possibly dangerous man, to appear cool/one of the boys/not like those humourless feminists (again appeasement I think)- maybe embarassment- or maybe just a woman who lacks imagination and empathy

dalecooper · 02/02/2023 17:12

OK. I said how I had been on the train and a man tried to talk to me repeatedly. I asked 'would you not get the message if someone started to read and then said they were going to sleep?'
He said 'depends what she was wearing' and something about girls not meaning what they say and everyone knows that two no's and a maybe really mean yes.

This was the initial joke and I then said 'that's what predators say'

He said yes that was the joke and then I said that that sort of joke made me nervous. He wanted to know why - was it because I thought he was predatory. I said it as because if men think like that I just don't particularly want to have anything to do with them and also that you can get a nasty surprise from the 'nicest' of guys.

That is when he made a further joke about having a rape-cloak. I said it wasn't funny and only some men seem to find that amusing and that I didn't know why that was. That's when he said actually it wasn't true that only men find it amusing and not to appoint myself spokeswoman for my gender.

He has since been back in touch to say that I should get off my high-horse and everything can be funny in context. He mentioned going out with a girl who was date raped and she could joke about rape.

So basically he has just made me feel very small and silly which was why I originally posted to try to sort out if I was unreasonable and rash.

OP posts:
ChangingSpoons · 02/02/2023 17:12

MrsSquirrel · 02/02/2023 17:08

Even if it's true that you don't know what all women find funny, he was being disrespectful by arguing about it. He must have seen you were upset by what he said and he still had a go at you.

He didn't really back off. He had to make it so he was in the right and you were in the wrong.

I'll be honest - this is ridiculous.

  1. You're saying that even though OP was wrong, he was "disrespectful" to tell her so? Surely, in the same vein, she's disrespectful for not telling him he's right?
  2. She had a go at him - he didn't have a go at her, and (like you said) she was wrong.
  3. He didn't need to "back off", he didn't "go forward". OP repeatedly brought it up, not him. He only responded to her.
  4. You've admitted that he was right and OP was wrong. Why should he just pretend she's right just because she's upset?
Sqqueeeeeeee · 02/02/2023 17:16

dalecooper · 02/02/2023 17:12

OK. I said how I had been on the train and a man tried to talk to me repeatedly. I asked 'would you not get the message if someone started to read and then said they were going to sleep?'
He said 'depends what she was wearing' and something about girls not meaning what they say and everyone knows that two no's and a maybe really mean yes.

This was the initial joke and I then said 'that's what predators say'

He said yes that was the joke and then I said that that sort of joke made me nervous. He wanted to know why - was it because I thought he was predatory. I said it as because if men think like that I just don't particularly want to have anything to do with them and also that you can get a nasty surprise from the 'nicest' of guys.

That is when he made a further joke about having a rape-cloak. I said it wasn't funny and only some men seem to find that amusing and that I didn't know why that was. That's when he said actually it wasn't true that only men find it amusing and not to appoint myself spokeswoman for my gender.

He has since been back in touch to say that I should get off my high-horse and everything can be funny in context. He mentioned going out with a girl who was date raped and she could joke about rape.

So basically he has just made me feel very small and silly which was why I originally posted to try to sort out if I was unreasonable and rash.

I don't understand the rape cloak comment at all and you've (again) not actually told us what he said about it.

He said 'depends what she was wearing' and something about girls not meaning what they say and everyone knows that two no's and a maybe really mean yes.

If this was said sarcastically then I don't think it's at all offensive. It's not a joke mocking rape, it's a joke mocking rape excusers. It's mocking the ridiculous reasons men (usually) give for why they thought rape was acceptable - it's not a joke directed at women or victims.

Isheabastard · 02/02/2023 17:16

I think a good test of a joke is sometimes to turn it around and see how that feels.

So for instance my exH sometimes would say introducing me “Have you met my first wife?” It was said now and then over 20 years. I sort of saw the humour he was trying to get at, though I didn’t encourage it.

Then I turned it around and imagined my self saying of him “Have you met my first husband?” And suddenly it seemed such a patronising and dismissive thing to say.

So if your mates joke was twisted so that he/other men were the butt of the joke, is it as funny?

Im finding as I get older that there can be a real split between the ages, with older people (men especially) still thinking certain types of jokes are still acceptable.

About 20 years ago I remember a friends husband saying at a dinner party “How can you tell when your wife has an orgasm?” Answer “who cares?”. None of the women laughed, and there was only a bit of eye rolling. I’d like to think if someone tried that now, everyone at the table would let him know what a rubbish thing that was to say.

Professional comedians have license to tell certain classes of jokes. If we like them we trust them to tell the joke, but in a way that actually is calling out the prejudice.

OP I personally wouldn’t worry if you went overboard (I don’t know what the joke was, and my or any one else’s opinion is only ever going to be subjective), but perhaps next time he goes to make a joke or pass a remark, he might think twice.

If that does happen, then thankyou. Please go with your gut instinct, it’s only because you got push back you’re now doubting yourself.

We need more stroppy, opinionated women in this world, not less.

WindscreenWipe · 02/02/2023 17:18

Isheabastard · 02/02/2023 17:16

I think a good test of a joke is sometimes to turn it around and see how that feels.

So for instance my exH sometimes would say introducing me “Have you met my first wife?” It was said now and then over 20 years. I sort of saw the humour he was trying to get at, though I didn’t encourage it.

Then I turned it around and imagined my self saying of him “Have you met my first husband?” And suddenly it seemed such a patronising and dismissive thing to say.

So if your mates joke was twisted so that he/other men were the butt of the joke, is it as funny?

Im finding as I get older that there can be a real split between the ages, with older people (men especially) still thinking certain types of jokes are still acceptable.

About 20 years ago I remember a friends husband saying at a dinner party “How can you tell when your wife has an orgasm?” Answer “who cares?”. None of the women laughed, and there was only a bit of eye rolling. I’d like to think if someone tried that now, everyone at the table would let him know what a rubbish thing that was to say.

Professional comedians have license to tell certain classes of jokes. If we like them we trust them to tell the joke, but in a way that actually is calling out the prejudice.

OP I personally wouldn’t worry if you went overboard (I don’t know what the joke was, and my or any one else’s opinion is only ever going to be subjective), but perhaps next time he goes to make a joke or pass a remark, he might think twice.

If that does happen, then thankyou. Please go with your gut instinct, it’s only because you got push back you’re now doubting yourself.

We need more stroppy, opinionated women in this world, not less.

So if your mates joke was twisted so that he/other men were the butt of the joke, is it as funny?

Other men were the butt of the joke in this case.

DemiColon · 02/02/2023 17:20

Obviously you didn't find it funny, and maybe no one would have found him funny as he doesn't sound like he actually said anything very insightful. Which is really the point in this instance, he upset you. But I don't think it's something that you'd normally bring up in a conversation with someone randomly. It's very likely to fall flat or really upset someone.

As for whether any women ever find any rape jokes funny, sure, some do sometimes. There are some comedians who have talked about rape and the audiences have found it funny, for example.

I don't think making it about that in your interaction with this guy is probably helpful. It makes it about you making an assumption about what all other women think in all instances, rather than about your actual interaction with this guy.

ScramblePud · 02/02/2023 17:25

dalecooper · 02/02/2023 17:12

OK. I said how I had been on the train and a man tried to talk to me repeatedly. I asked 'would you not get the message if someone started to read and then said they were going to sleep?'
He said 'depends what she was wearing' and something about girls not meaning what they say and everyone knows that two no's and a maybe really mean yes.

This was the initial joke and I then said 'that's what predators say'

He said yes that was the joke and then I said that that sort of joke made me nervous. He wanted to know why - was it because I thought he was predatory. I said it as because if men think like that I just don't particularly want to have anything to do with them and also that you can get a nasty surprise from the 'nicest' of guys.

That is when he made a further joke about having a rape-cloak. I said it wasn't funny and only some men seem to find that amusing and that I didn't know why that was. That's when he said actually it wasn't true that only men find it amusing and not to appoint myself spokeswoman for my gender.

He has since been back in touch to say that I should get off my high-horse and everything can be funny in context. He mentioned going out with a girl who was date raped and she could joke about rape.

So basically he has just made me feel very small and silly which was why I originally posted to try to sort out if I was unreasonable and rash.

So it wasn't actually a rape joke then? 🙄Jokes targeted at people who justify rape are not rape jokes. I'm sorry you were upset but if you'd handled it like an adult instead of trying to attack him and use "all women" as your army then you probably wouldn't have fallen out over it. You could've just said "I'm really not in a place where I appreciate that kind of humour right now" rather than playing the "everyone agrees with me so you're definitely wrong" card.

Notimeforaname · 02/02/2023 17:25

that NO women do find rape jokes funny and I was not trying to be any kind of spokeswoman.

Its happened to me. I've made lots of jokes about it. I've laughed at comedians jokes about it. Some people heal through humour.

I went to a talk once by 3 sisters who had been sexually abused by their father for years.
They have a book called 'click click' their talk was like a stand up routine at times. They explained that this is how they have healed from it.

So yes op, some women DO laugh at jokes on that topic.

MrsSquirrel · 02/02/2023 17:27

I wouldn't have found it funny. I wouldn't have wanted to keep arguing with him about it.

He sounds creepy and not very nice. He made you feel very small and silly. This person is not your friend and you are better off not having contact with him.

Notimeforaname · 02/02/2023 17:27

He has since been back in touch to say that I should get off my high-horse and everything can be funny in context. He mentioned going out with a girl who was date raped and she could joke about rape.

I agree with him. You can't speak for every woman and not every woman thinks the same about everything.

catandcoffee · 02/02/2023 17:37

Fucking hail the women in here falling over them selves to excuse his behaviour.

OP he's a scummy arsehole and you're well rid of his friendship.

He's the type to say "she's asking for it dressed like that"

Well done for having firm boundaries in place.

LexMitior · 02/02/2023 17:42

@dalecooper - that guy is a grade a creep. Nasty.

The problem is such men know you have manners when you respond politely like this. And they exploit it.

Siameasy · 02/02/2023 17:50

You can’t dictate that. Humour is completely subjective. Anyone is allowed to laugh at anything they want.
Ive been sexually assaulted and I have found some rape jokes amusing. Shoot me.

Iam4eels · 02/02/2023 17:50

I agree, he's an arsehole. He appears to be the kind of man who doesn't take "no" as an answer and instead views it as a starting point for negotiations.

And regardless of the rights or wrongs, he's your friend and you told.him you didn't find his "joke" funny because it made you uncomfortable. A decent friend would have recognised that they'd crossed a boundary and would have left it there, probably even apologised, because what decent friend wants to intentionally upset their friend by continuing even after its clear they've crossed the line?

He's a dick.

LexMitior · 02/02/2023 17:53

He's a bloody creep because he persists when he knows you don't like his "humour".

Don't engage. He is getting off on that, your discomfort. It's the same reason he tells the jokes.

Any woman who laughs is now fair game for being even more belittling than you, so pity them.

DietCroak · 02/02/2023 17:56

DinnerThyme · 02/02/2023 16:59

I'm a victim of rape. I was raped repeatedly by an adult family member when I was between the ages of 12 and 14. There are some jokes I find funny on the topic - humour and laughing is largely determined by surprise. Social taboos are a key component in most comedy. As with most jokes, timing and appropriate context is vital. Humour is also a coping mechanism for many abuse survivors. Please stop speaking for others - it's not your place.

Quite. TBH telling victims of rape and sexual assault what they're allowed to find funny is as offensive as any joke.

tara66 · 02/02/2023 17:58

He seems very aggressive asserting his opinion 'on this almost tabu subject for casual conversation . I presume he has never been raped himself and has no fear of it happening to him - so how would be know what women feel about it? Is he a rapist himself perhaps, trying to make it something trivial and even funny ? He does not seem to realise that he is discussing a crime that is only second to murder. So he is stupid too.

LexMitior · 02/02/2023 17:59

No it isn't. Telling jokes about rape and sexual assault is an acquired taste. Most people steer clear because they have manners. There is a huge difference between these jokes being told in a comedy club which is self selecting and having some bloke make them to you as part of chatting you up. The second is very suspect

DietCroak · 02/02/2023 18:00

LexMitior · 02/02/2023 17:59

No it isn't. Telling jokes about rape and sexual assault is an acquired taste. Most people steer clear because they have manners. There is a huge difference between these jokes being told in a comedy club which is self selecting and having some bloke make them to you as part of chatting you up. The second is very suspect

I agree with this.

picklemewalnuts · 02/02/2023 18:03

'Joke' one about man pestering woman:
depends what she was wearing' and something about girls not meaning what they say and everyone knows that two no's and a maybe really mean yes.

'Joke' 2 after asking if she thinks he's a predator:
I've got a rape-cloak.

I don't think that's funny. I think he's doubling down later demonstrates nicely that he's an arsehole.

I'm disappointed some women on here think it's just 'bantz init'.

He's verbally intimidating and harassing his friend with this behaviour and OP was right to bin him off.