Page 8 | Mason Greenwood.

Icannotbelieveitatall · 2023-02-02T14:23:00+00:00

I cannot believe that the charges have been dropped. Anyone remember the audio recording? He demanded she put her legs up. “Mason stop, I don’t want to have sex.” ”I don’t give a fuck what you want.” Charges dropped. I cannot believe it.

AdamRyan · 03/02/2023 11:52

The recording was released on the Internet which triggered greenwood's arrest and charge

So yes, evidence but in the public domain before it was evidence

NashvilleQueen · 03/02/2023 12:18

By trying to frame the conversation around the rights of men to be tried "innocent until proven guilty" you are also stopping the conversation around the rights of women to get justice if they are raped.

I'm framing it around the rights to a fair trial for any defendant whoever they are. That's a fundamental principle of democratic society. I'm also framing it around the fact that without the evidence of an otherwise available complainant in a case with no witnesses there is no prospect of a successful prosecution.

What are you suggesting is the alternative when a victim withdraws their support for a prosecution? Are you seeking legislative change to allow for the prosecution of rape outside of the usual evidential requirements for other criminal offences? Or a 'not proven' verdict rather than an outright acquittal?

Lockheart · 03/02/2023 12:21

By trying to frame the conversation around the rights of men to be tried "innocent until proven guilty" you are also stopping the conversation around the rights of women to get justice if they are raped.

Everyone is innocent until proven guilty. It doesn't matter what sex you are or what crime you're accused of. There is no exception for men accused of rape.

You can have conversations around the rights of women to get justice while also holding the first principle in mind.

Duchess379 · 03/02/2023 12:29

There was a picture taken, quite recently, of the pair of them hugging, in his house. How can CPS realistically get a conviction if there's pictures of her cosying up to him after the fact? That's why it's been dropped. And I suspect she wasn't going to support the prosecution.. makes CPS' job a lot harder with a hostile witness....

windyarse · 03/02/2023 12:32

@Nimbostratus100

t the simple fact that you have heard a recording which is presumably evidence, means no trial can go ahead

How does this work?

if the general public have heard (seen?) evidence it can't be used?

If that was the case why was the trial going ahead?

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 03/02/2023 13:52

dew141 · 02/02/2023 17:50

I would have been more open-minded had I not listened to the recording. It's disgusting and he should be ashamed of himself.

Can you imagine how his mum must feel?

prh47bridge · 03/02/2023 13:53

Duchess379 · 03/02/2023 12:29

There was a picture taken, quite recently, of the pair of them hugging, in his house. How can CPS realistically get a conviction if there's pictures of her cosying up to him after the fact? That's why it's been dropped. And I suspect she wasn't going to support the prosecution.. makes CPS' job a lot harder with a hostile witness....

If they are back together, that would explain her withdrawing from the case. Without her evidence, it would be very difficult to get a conviction. If she gave evidence for the defence and said the recording wasn't what it appeared to be, that would fatally undermine the prosecution case.

prh47bridge · 03/02/2023 13:55

windyarse · 03/02/2023 12:32

@Nimbostratus100

t the simple fact that you have heard a recording which is presumably evidence, means no trial can go ahead

How does this work?

if the general public have heard (seen?) evidence it can't be used?

If that was the case why was the trial going ahead?

The poster is wrong. The fact that many people have heard the recording may make it harder to find jurors that haven't prejudged the case, but it does not mean that no trial is possible.

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 03/02/2023 13:56

Mannymoomin · 03/02/2023 01:09

I shouldn’t speculate, but the new evidence must’ve come from the defence team.
Theres nothing stopping the defence from questioning her previous sexual partners and asking them to be witness for a defence.
Obviously this shouldn’t happen, and I’m not saying that’s what happened here, my point is, it is allowed to happen.

Is that similar to the CH case? She often enjoyed rough sex so this instance was ok something like that?

Honestly, if anything like this ever happened to DD I'd honestly not be surprised if she chose not to go to the police.

Spottypaperdoll · 03/02/2023 13:59

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4thonthe4th · 03/02/2023 14:07

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The fans have been informed, or your husband has been? If the latter, by whom?

prh47bridge · 03/02/2023 14:09

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 03/02/2023 13:56

Is that similar to the CH case? She often enjoyed rough sex so this instance was ok something like that?

Honestly, if anything like this ever happened to DD I'd honestly not be surprised if she chose not to go to the police.

Show quote history

In general, a defendant accused of a sexual offence is not allowed to introduce the complainant's sexual history except in very limited circumstances.

Don't get the reference to the "CH case" so I can't comment on that. Who is/was CH?

Spottypaperdoll · 03/02/2023 14:12

@4thonthe4th my husband and his colleagues who run the podcast together have been informed- I don’t know by who, he wouldn’t tell me. They were made aware of this months ago but they haven’t announced it on the podcast. They didn’t feel it was right. Again I’m not sure why, I don’t believe they doubt the source.
It’s not a straightforward case.

mcjudge · 03/02/2023 14:14

So the victim is now saying that she wasn't a victim?

Spottypaperdoll · 03/02/2023 14:15

@mcjudge yes, which I find very worrying

prh47bridge · 03/02/2023 14:29

mcjudge · 03/02/2023 14:14

So the victim is now saying that she wasn't a victim?

Very common in rape cases. In around 50% of reported rapes, the complainant withdraws the complaint before it gets to trial. In many of these, the complainant has started or resumed a relationship with their alleged attacker. That is one of the reasons the conviction rate for rape is so low.

4thonthe4th · 03/02/2023 14:31

Spottypaperdoll · 03/02/2023 14:12

@4thonthe4th my husband and his colleagues who run the podcast together have been informed- I don’t know by who, he wouldn’t tell me. They were made aware of this months ago but they haven’t announced it on the podcast. They didn’t feel it was right. Again I’m not sure why, I don’t believe they doubt the source.
It’s not a straightforward case.

Thank you for answering.
It certainly isn’t and there is a lot that, rightly, hadn’t been made public.
I’m not going to say anything outing but I have a link to someone linked to the case so was interested in who had leaked details to your husbands podcast.

Nimbostratus100 · 03/02/2023 14:31

windyarse · 03/02/2023 12:32

@Nimbostratus100

t the simple fact that you have heard a recording which is presumably evidence, means no trial can go ahead

How does this work?

if the general public have heard (seen?) evidence it can't be used?

If that was the case why was the trial going ahead?

exactly, how could he have got a fair trial when there is no control at all over what is in social media, and what any potential jury members have already heard

Most people on this thread have already made up their minds about him - and any one of them could have ended up on the jury. Thats exactly why you cant discuss cases in public after charge. It is considered contempt of court, and also grounds to dismiss the case

NotAnotherBathBomb · 03/02/2023 14:34

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A fan podcast? Fans of who?

I think the answer to that will hint to what kinds of rumours come their way. Because let’s face it, it would have been rumour.

4thonthe4th · 03/02/2023 14:36

NotAnotherBathBomb · 03/02/2023 14:34

A fan podcast? Fans of who?

I think the answer to that will hint to what kinds of rumours come their way. Because let’s face it, it would have been rumour.

Show quote history

Quite! I think pp means a fan podcast which should hopefully be easy to find. It’ll need to be reported that “sources” are spreading falsehoods about the case to people who, presumably as fans, will hold some bias.

Spottypaperdoll · 03/02/2023 14:43

It’s a football podcast

They are a small group who do this in their spare time and didn’t feel equipped to deal with such information, and the legalities of putting it out there, so didn’t mention it. They had multiple reasons not to feel comfortable about it to be honest. It’s also not really in keeping with what they usually bang on about, it’s mostly just talk about transfers and dodgy owners.

My feeling is that the victim has been pressured. They both follow each other on instagram again.

Another case of how important it is to keep this info out the press because the trial would never have been fair.

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 03/02/2023 15:17

47bridge sorry lazy typing, Ched Evans. I may have incorrectly remembered but I'm sure "further evidence " by the defence was her asking a past partner for a certain sex act/type of sex.

You said later that the victim/accuser starting a relationship up again with the accused is one of the reasons convictions are so low. This must be incredibly rare surely?

Mannymoomin · 03/02/2023 15:22

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 03/02/2023 13:56

Is that similar to the CH case? She often enjoyed rough sex so this instance was ok something like that?

Honestly, if anything like this ever happened to DD I'd honestly not be surprised if she chose not to go to the police.

Show quote history

I’m not sure which one the CH case is, I think the Ched Evans case is, off the top of my head, the most high profile where the same defence has been raised.

A pp is correct in that this should only be raised in very limited circumstances, but a study a few years ago suggests it happens far more frequently,

”A shocking 75% of the surveyed ISVAs said that they had witnessed alleged survivors be interrogated about their sexual histories by lawyers representing the alleged abuser. Only a quarter said that none of the cases they attended included questioning the complainant about previous sexual history.

Most worryingly, more than half (56%) of the ISVAs surveyed said that in every case they had worked on where the complainant was questioned about their sexual history, the complainant was not warned in advance that defence barristers would try to use their sexual histories against them.”

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 03/02/2023 16:07

prh47bridge · 03/02/2023 16:09

Mannymoomin · 03/02/2023 15:22

I’m not sure which one the CH case is, I think the Ched Evans case is, off the top of my head, the most high profile where the same defence has been raised.

A pp is correct in that this should only be raised in very limited circumstances, but a study a few years ago suggests it happens far more frequently,

”A shocking 75% of the surveyed ISVAs said that they had witnessed alleged survivors be interrogated about their sexual histories by lawyers representing the alleged abuser. Only a quarter said that none of the cases they attended included questioning the complainant about previous sexual history.

Most worryingly, more than half (56%) of the ISVAs surveyed said that in every case they had worked on where the complainant was questioned about their sexual history, the complainant was not warned in advance that defence barristers would try to use their sexual histories against them.”

Show quote history

No, an argument that she enjoyed rough sex was not part of the Ched Evans case.

And note that 75% of ISVAs saying they have witnessed this is not the same as saying it happened in 75% of cases. The survey involved 36 advisers who worked on 550 trials, so all that tells us is that questioning happened in at least 27 of the 550 trials.