To think the uk is on its knees

[Ilovemycatalot]

Just this. Every day negativity. No one is happy with life or working conditions. The country is at an all time low. Living standards getting worse by the day people getting poorer. I know we are not in poverty like some countries but honestly can’t see us ever returning to decent living standards unless you’re the few top percent earners. Tell me I’m being dramatic perhaps I am but can’t see much of a way back from this .

I'm not calling you racist at all, I just don't understand your position as a migrant, independently if you are in Germany or the UK.

Migration is essential if we want to continue to have a minimum of services in countries where the population is almost 0. Europe and the UK population are getting old and the pressure on health and pensions will increase. Without migration to pay taxes, the whole system will collapse in less than 20 years.

Germany was accused a few years ago, during the Afghan/Syrian war, of opening their borders to a massive influx of refugees to the EU. Merkel did it for clear economic reasons (she was not doing it because her heart was overflowing with sympathy) her government wanted to get new tax payers in their country, and her gamble paid off.

To quote ..."More than 10,000 people who arrived in Germany as refugees since 2015 have mastered the language sufficiently to enrol at a German university. More than half of those who came are in work and pay taxes. Among refugee children and teenagers, more than 80% say they have a strong sense of belonging to their German schools and feel liked by their peers."

While migrant seem to be a dirty word in conservative press, the reality is exactly the opposite.

Again, as a migrant, didn't you come to the UK from a poorer country?

I would challenge this assumption. Migrant just means someone moving countries. It seems to have become a loaded term wrt balance in country wealth but it’s not always the case.

People move from countries that are not poorer, and move in both directions.

10 000 you say?

Out of how many? 890 000 according to DW.

www.dw.com/en/migration-to-germany-to-hit-12-million-in-2022-report/a-63978746

Migrant, as understood in the UK today, means a person from a poor country moving to a richer one. An American businessman/woman settling in the UK is not considered a migrant.

Funnily enough, a UK citizen retiring for "economic reasons" to another country is called an expat. It would never be called a migrant, even if that's what they are.

🙄

Really? Are they not included in net migration figures?

Where do they feature in statistics

Apologies, I quoted an old article.

I'm not talking about migrations figures. I'm talking about what "migrant" means for most people.

Don't play disingenuous.

Of course.

What are the new numbers?

I’m not ‘playing’ anything I’m challenging your assumption.

Part of the problem is using migrant in a derogatory way, so why would you reiterate it.

I moved, all my family have been fortunate to move across the world at various times, I have a different view on what migration is - it doesn’t have to be negative. We still need a word that works though.

The issue the UK has is that it hasn't any money to invest in the automation processes that will be essential as we find we can't grow our economy with migration and we aren't quite as attractive to overseas investors.

I was amazed to hear the 10s of billions being poured into micro chip development by US and EU but the UK nothing at all... no plan... so we will be reliant on other countries who will service their own needs first.

Today Lloyds is warning of this instability as has the BoE, OECD and IMF... its not just Brexit either, we ve seen less people return to the workforce, our health service hasn't recovered and neither has our economy.... we seem to have more deep rooted issues.

We are losing ground to other countries and whilst some don't see the dangers we are facing.... with a cheery "oh we'll bounce back" (How?) many others do and they are real and need addressing.

But atm all 3 main parties seem oblivious to the obvious.

The loss of older working people to the economy is taken very seriously by the Chancellor, but actually ask the prematurely retireds whether they intend returning to work and the answer is generally a resounding "NO WAY!"

Since the 1990s, companies have been pushing the most expensive employees out, to promote/make career progress possible and to reduce their pension contributions. If you were self-employed, the options for work were restricted or strangled. Roll on a few years and the economy wants/needs the "lost" workers back.

People who retired early, so 55 - 65, who have paid off their mortgages and saved into their pensions will get by without working -- unless there's something attractive for them to do. A civil engineer acquaintance was head-hunted back as a consultant for a major rail project, because a few weeks into retirement, the company suddenly realised that the organisation lacked the depth and breadth of understanding and institutional knowledge that that person had acquired through a series of such projects. Same goes for doctors at consultant level, and probably many other professions and very skilled trades such as toolmakers.

@EffortlessDesmond If our economy is reliant on a bunch of the over 50s saving us all, then we are really in the shit, the areas we are really short in are not well paid and people can't afford to retire at 52, even well paid workers can't.

If Hunt was really worried, he'd stop being able to draw down a pension (25% tax free) at 55, which i don't think other countries allow.

The French retire at 62, they don't seem to have these issues of Labour shortages like we do, i do not see or hear of this in France.

The loss of 330k EU nationals is the real reason & so few coming here now but blaming the 50 plus age group avoids facing up to some Brexit home truths.

This.

l was regarded as too expensive and not dynamic enough. Yet l could literally shit wisdom and experience. They count for nothing. I walked. Had enough of objectives, targets, pressure, 20 year olds telling me what to do.

Jeremy needs to put better work environments in place before any 50 year olds return.

It’s nowt to do with money and everything to do with modern workplace culture.

There was a really good More or Less this morning and NHS shortages. Discussion on there being more staff than pre pandemic but the target has increased, which then translates to the idea of a shortage based on a new target.

It’s an arbitrary amount so you could have an NHS that meets number but it shifts to shortage again.

Other countries have had healthcare shortages post pandemic. In any case net migration is up, so they must be work visas meeting work requirements

I must catch up with that @MarshaBradyo . Thank you for mentioning it!

There may be more staff, but the NHS have discovered, many are not work ready for the UK.

I’ve been a bit slack with it lately but I’m reminded how good it is each time

That was to Effortless

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow absolutely correct. Some bean counter decided they could get 3 straight out of Unis for the price of one senior staff member and then wonders why the company no longer functions or isa bit second rate

There is a host of reasons each generation has historically felt a collective duty to their society, to sustain a birth rate, and even people who don't have children are part of that. It isn't just for fun. If we don't do so there will be much misery and death this is quite obvious to everyone that has eyes to see consequences. To say nothing of wasted potential in areas we need to get very good at, very soon if humanity is to survive.

Other countries have had healthcare shortages post pandemic. In any case net migration is up, so they must be work visas meeting work requirements

Interesting program More or Less.

Migration is mainly up because of Ukraine, Foreign students and HK Chinese.

The largest single factor is the introduction of visa routes for Ukrainian refugees and Hong Kong British Nationals (Overseas) status holders. Together these two routes contributed 45% of the 467,000 increase in visa grants between 2019 and the year ending June 2022

Other countries have far more HCPs in their health systems (Europe) and the shortages are quite low.
We went into the pandemic with the lowest numbers of HCPs per capita of any major EU economy.

I think Germany has a total shortfall of 35k (inc community carers) the UK is over 300k

Do you have a new article with new numbers?

Because 10,000 out of 12 million is not very convincing for your claims.

I take the point re staff per head but here is Germany shortages

dynamichealthstaff.com/blog/the-lack-of-nursing-personnel-in-germany-continues-to-worsen/

Germany’s hospitals have been experiencing a shortage of nursing staff for several years, and this shortage worsened last year. In 2021, there were approximately 14,000 vacant positions for registered nurses in German clinics, with an additional 8,000 vacancies in intensive care units

The UK would die for those numbers, remember they have a population of 85m compared to our 68m.
We have total shortage of approx 43k and social care in 150k (depending who you ask)

Germany - Nurses per 100k of population 14, the UK is 7.8. The UK has one of the lowest in Europe, below the OECD36 average.

I'm not entirely sure why this was encouraged, it does seem illogical

But as you say, its not a uniquely UK problem, even if the scale is.

Germany’s hospitals have been experiencing a shortage of nursing staff for several years, and this shortage worsened last year. In 2021, there were approximately 14,000 vacant positions for registered nurses in German clinics, with an additional 8,000 vacancies in intensive care units

And those shortages are there despite the huge immigration numbers. So it seems immigration is not a solution for a shortage in nursing and health care staff.