Some woman enable misogyny

[2023newyearnewname]

Why do some women excuse men and their misogyny and giggle it away/make light of it as if it's nothing and ignore the violence towards women.

An example on The Jeremy Vine show this morning. Talking about the Tom Jones song. One presenter said well you should hear how a rapper talks about women and want they want to do to them. My generation (Z I thing she said) just take no notice and don't get upset about it. Isn't she just part of the problem eg accepting of men speaking about violence and acts towards women and what they might do to them. Surely she cannot have missed the face that many children listen, the growth in children watching porn and violent porn towards women and the increase in choking sex, violent sex etc/

Or am I just unreasonable, should I just not speak up and accept women should shut up and laugh along with the rappers. Youngish black woman wasn't offended at all about what the rapper says he wants to do with women etc. I found it a bit odd.

Arhh!! Pressed wrong button. Meant to press YANBU. You actually have 100% YRNBU if you ignore my clumsy fingers 😁

I should have checked for typos, sorry, I hope it makes sense.

Briefly, I cannot understand women who feel the way some men talk about women and what they want to do to them is ok and laugh it off. It kind of (to me at least) implies to young boys it's ok and talking about women like that is fine.

I wasn't talking about the Tom Jones song but about the comment the presenter said about more serious comments against women and what men say they want to do to them.

@shiningstar2 I'm not sure if you are aware you can change your vote. You just press on the other option and it changes.

YANBU.

And it’s so much more than ’just’ (I don’t mean it that way), it’s also porn/sex work/ violent sex or ’kink’ as they insist to call it, objectifying other women (I’m younger and many women seem to do this now to other women to be one of the guys), still thinking women must have boyfriends/husband and kids.

The problem is most of us are raised to be good little girls and we are told many lies aboit how wonderful men are.
Many are blind because it’s everywhere and if some woman does speak up, we’ve all seen how that goes down.

I think many are scared and just toes the line in order to fit in, perhaps not realizing the damage.
Or maybe they don’t care, as long as they are fine.

Lots of women are mysoginists.

Hardly surprising given the sexist society we live in.

Look at the Brit awards and Lorraine Kelly blithely stating that it's just the way it is that the best artists are men

Look at the amount of women who happily give up work and make themselves entirely dependent on men?

Or who say things like oh, no he wouldn't be able to cope with looking after his children.

Look at the amount of women who believe jealousy is a good thing

Who blame the other woman rather than their oh

Who think women who have been sexually assaulted asked for it

Etc etc

I was a victim of a serious sexual assault when I was younger and I hoped that things might move on a bit. I had the you walked home in a short skirt and heels comments. Seriously some think that it is ok them for a man to attack if particular clothing is worn.

According to my niece many boys watch porn in her year (11) and choking women and verbal abuse towards them is a thing at present apparently. I mean seriously what the heck.

Lorraine Kelly blithely stating that it's just the way it is that the best artists are men

LK is a bit of a twat and idiot .... Hopefully noone with any sense would give her opinions credence.

@TicketBoo23

Indeed

However I very much doubt she would have said its just the way it is that the best actors are white.

R5 had a female commentator defending use of Tom Jones song at rugby and arguing with the man saying its an example of normalising DV

I was shocked

It's a song that tells a story from the man's perspective. I think when people sing it they don't really analyse the lyrics it's just a great tune and Sir Tom has a brilliant voice. I am sure that song has not incited any acts of violence towards women.

Where do you draw the line? Nursery rhymes, the old woman in the shoe who whipped her children and sent them to bed without any food? Goosey goosey gander where an old man is thrown down the stairs for not saying his prayers?

"I felt the knife in my hand and she laughed no more" is quite violent

There is a difference between singing it and promoting it. Using it as a team anthem type of thing in sport is promotion imo

Many women are misogynistic. Many still believe that men are some how more superior and better than them, which means that these men can still get away with horrific behaviour, so much of which is enabled by the misogynistic woman. It’s completely messed up and insidious and all this ant-woman nonsense is being passed onto a new generation of women who perpetuate the misogyny. When I point this out, how awful this reality is, my misogynistic mother tells me I am just an angry feminist. It’s like banging your head against a brick wall.

Perhaps but I think outputs of internalised misogyny are actually quite complex. (It's similar to internalised homophobia for many gay men and lesbians.)

I don't think it's as easy as 'blaming' women who repeat a misogynist narrative or excuse misogynist behaviour. You've got to look at the broader context; upbringing, parental and societal influences, that kind of thing.

I also think it's possible to challenge those views and debate without blaming. Women get blamed for enough shit as it is.

One presenter said well you should hear how a rapper talks about women and want they want to do to them. My generation (Z I thing she said) just take no notice and don't get upset about it.

This just sounds like classic "head in the sand". It's easier to go through life saying "no big deal" then it is to spend time critiquing the culture you grew up in and the attitudes of the men who are part of the culture.

Some women get a lot out of being the “weeker sex” - it stops them having to do anything

some women have been so badly treated that they have internalised the misogyny as a survival mechanism

some women aren’t bright enough to see what’s happening

tgeres lots of reasons. Some, like abuse are not a woman’s fault. Others are down to greed, laziness or stupidity.

You just have to look at how some women speak about perceived other women being interested in their OH or the comments of how “unhinged” you must be if you say you’ve been sexually assaulted by a male doctor . I’ve never seen a man described as unhinged. Or “batshit”.

I should have added “for instance” after my example (having had exactly that said to me on MN).
Or the comments about Amber Heard or Meghan Markle..

I have a theory about this having been both sides of the fence.

When I was younger I genuinely didn’t really see a problem with porn or misogynistic men subjugating young women in music videos. Now I’m menopausal it’s like the curtains been lifted and I understand everything some women have been saying for ages.

I have no idea if it’s life experience or hormones but I no longer see things in the sane way. Personally I think there’s something about being young and fertile that makes you just more up for sexual hedonism. You giggle along because life’s just a bit more Carry On generally.

Then you get older, a bit less up for sex overall, and you realise that behind every bloke roughly handling a women in a music video is an attitude that that female is there solely for his dick to penetrate. It starts to mentally jar. Then you look around and realise the world’s actually geared for men to have their fun. The patriarchy does exist. It’s really odd. The rose tinted glasses are just smashed and broken.

Thanks @2023newyearnewname just changed my vote 😁

I defer the focus on school skirts doesn’t help things here either. Girls are naughty for having short skirts - the conditioning starts early

Stoke fans will never stop singing it. But their lyrics have been changed anyway..

It's hardly surprising that women who have been brought up in an abusively patriarchal society have internalised the message that their wants and needs are less important than the men who have structured society in their favour.

We're none of us raised in a vacuum, but I don't think women are more to blame for men's violence against them than men are.

@Mamamia7962 You completely missed the point of my AIBU - did you read the post, it was about the female guest comments?

"Mamamia7962 · Today 10:42
It's a song that tells a story from the man's perspective. I think when people sing it they don't really analyse the lyrics it's just a great tune and Sir Tom has a brilliant voice. I am sure that song has not incited any acts of violence towards women.
Where do you draw the line? Nursery rhymes, the old woman in the shoe who whipped her children and sent them to bed without any food? Goosey goosey gander where an old man is thrown down the stairs for not saying his prayers?"

@DysmalRadius

I wouldn't blame women, more that it is enabled by some, maybe on purpose or probably for most as a part of their upbringing, they are unaware of how they defer to men, women's place in society, how accepting they are of men watching porn/violence against women and dismissing it, how some feel that women are 'lesser than' men, the use of the society labels 'dumb blonde', 'silly little woman', etc

I was quite surprised by how accepting the young woman was of how a rapper refers to women and what he wants to do to them as ok and normal and just dismissive of it. She suggested young people are ok with it and just accept it as she does.

Substitute being offensive or suggesting violence to others groups of people and would that be tolerated