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AIBU?

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Original poster

Some woman enable misogyny

91 replies

2023newyearnewname · 02/02/2023 10:20

Why do some women excuse men and their misogyny and giggle it away/make light of it as if it's nothing and ignore the violence towards women.

An example on The Jeremy Vine show this morning. Talking about the Tom Jones song. One presenter said well you should hear how a rapper talks about women and want they want to do to them. My generation (Z I thing she said) just take no notice and don't get upset about it. Isn't she just part of the problem eg accepting of men speaking about violence and acts towards women and what they might do to them. Surely she cannot have missed the face that many children listen, the growth in children watching porn and violent porn towards women and the increase in choking sex, violent sex etc/

Or am I just unreasonable, should I just not speak up and accept women should shut up and laugh along with the rappers. Youngish black woman wasn't offended at all about what the rapper says he wants to do with women etc. I found it a bit odd.

OP posts:
Original poster
2023newyearnewname · 02/02/2023 18:15

My reply was to another poster who thought I was racist because I MADE THE COMMENT ABOUT THE RAPPER - I didn't the guest on the show made the comment. I was commenting on her comment. The other poster assumed that I made the comment about a black man and I was a white woman. Assumptions again.

Oh my - I am perfectly well aware that not all black men or black women are misogynistic.

I am not ignoring other types of music and focusing on rap - the guest presenter gave the example not me. I wasn't focusing on the genre of music but on the COMMENT that a woman made excusing how a particular man spoke about what he wanted to do with and to women and her reaction to that was ok.

There's a lot of not reading going on. It's NOT ABOUT THE MUSIC TRACK or the type of music played.

OP posts:
Original poster
2023newyearnewname · 02/02/2023 18:16

@Littlechickenhead

Wow that is awful. What on earth makes MIL have those believes. Why does she hate women/judge women/assume they are at fault rather that the person who did it. Very odd.

OP posts:
Original poster
2023newyearnewname · 02/02/2023 18:19

@takeonme and @RudsyFarmer

I agree. Older women in my experience are less tolerant of misogynistic behaviour. That was my original point which some have missed - the younger woman excused it and said her generation ignore it. Sadly my ignoring it goes unanswered and may get worse still

OP posts:
Phoenixrising2020 · 02/02/2023 18:23

MaryEllen, I referenced her age as I am no longer a spring chicken myself and I was shocked that she had that attitude with a mature perspective on life. She was with a man and it actually made me really sad for her and I was shocked. The last time I heard a woman do that I was 20 and she was in a really abusive relationship. I didn't have time to write all that earlier.
Like a PP said, the whole sort of Carry On attitude is expected to an extent in youth, but this woman sounded as though she really hated other women. It is visibly obvious that I am a woman and it felt very threatening.

I wouldn't mention age gratuitously, it was relevant to my thoughts on the matter. I was in a rush but I clicked on this thread because it reminded me of it. I will try to be clearer about such things in future, thank you for pointing out that it seemed that way. I am embarrassed and I will ask for the post to be deleted.

Even so, it's a worrying issue that there are women who either think, or seem to think this way.

Original poster
2023newyearnewname · 02/02/2023 18:30

@Thepeopleversuswork totally agree

OP posts:
MorrisZapp · 02/02/2023 18:35

I've often said this on here but my granny was the most misogynist person I've ever known. She just placed no value on women at all. I remember her complaining in a shop and saying 'I'm not wanting to speak to the girly! Fetch the mannie!' (Aberdeen accent).

She used to give my brother a bigger Easter egg than us. Bloody outrageous.

phoenixrosehere · 02/02/2023 18:41

10HailMarys · 02/02/2023 15:15

I think it’s a colossal over-simplification to say that this kind of thing is enabling misogyny. If anything, I think to lay the blame on women for ‘enabling’ misogyny is in itself quite misogynistic, and there is a strongly misogynistic tone to a lot of the replies on this thread.

Song lyrics are equivalent to a work of fiction. Something like Delilah (or, eg, Where The Wild Roses Grow by Nick Cave & Kylie Minogue) is a song in which a fictional character is talking about a terrible thing they’ve done. Singing along to it doesn’t imply approval or tolerance of violence against women, any more than singing along to Johnny Cash’s Folsom Prison Blues implies that someone approves of ‘shooting a man in Reno just to watch him die’ and/or is enabling gun violence. What about Mack The Knife? I am enabling an epidemic of gangland stabbings by humming along to Bobby Darin? What about drugs, am I enabling addiction by listening to Lou Reed singing about heroin? What about books and films? Is everyone who loves The Silence Of The Lambs enabling cannibalism?

And before anyone chips in to tell me I wouldn’t say this if I’d been a victim of violence, I’d like to point out that I have survived domestic violence, have also been seriously sexually assaulted by a stranger. I’m also heavily involved in campaigning against VAW through the women’s network (of which I was a founder member) at my place of work.

Some people find a song like Delilah or certain rap lyrics distasteful or upsetting or have a hard time separating them from reality. That is OK. You feel what you feel and there’s nothing wrong with that. But there is also nothing wrong with believing that a fictional account of a character’s violence is entirely separate from any advocation or violence in real life, and condemning other women as misogyny enablers because they feel differently to you is judgemental, divisive and unfair.

I think you’ve summed it up quite nicely and I agree with you.

It reminds me when people blamed movies, music, and video games as excuses for why their children committed crimes because it was easier to blame them than looking into what they as parents were teaching on an individual level and failing to point out the difference between truth and fiction.

Growing up, there were tons of songs I sang along to with my parents that I didn’t know the meaning of and still didn’t realise it until after I had kids. When I did understand the lyrics as I got older, nothing ever made me think I was supposed to go out and do the things described or accept them either nor would I have gone out with a man that thought those things were acceptable.

SandraCumin · 02/02/2023 18:55

phoenixrosehere · 02/02/2023 18:08

Not really. You are making it out as a black woman = all black women think it’s acceptable. It always seems to be black people and rap music used as an example while ignoring the same issues in rock music which has been around longer than rap music and still has questionable lyrics.

Show quote history

I’m glad somebody else picked up on the racist dogwhistling seeping out of the original post. Rap music isn’t even half as problematic as some of the other genres out there such as country & western which is rife with bigotry, homophobia and misogyny.

sendbobs · 02/02/2023 19:03

Most of these really aren't misogynistic

Lorraine Kelly- yes. Dumb thing to say, unless you listen to a particular genre like rap. In which case, it's personal taste, not men are better.

Staying at home to raise kids is a personal choice and nobody else's business. Bit ironic to claim somebody else's choice is misogyny because you don't like it.

Some men are useless and can't look after their children- where is the misogyny? That's based on their specific relationship and whatever issues the dad has that means he can't tolerate his own children.

Women can be jealous. One persons boundary is another's control. Don't know who's think jealousy is actually a good thing either way.

Women have every right to not like the OW who has broken woman code herself- interestingly that didn't make it to your list though. It has nothing to do with hating the women in most cases. You love your partner. You want to believe that they are sorry and can change. Exactly the same in same sex relationships. Not often misogyny.

Yes, if you think anyone deserves SA that is misogyny. Luckily, most people don't believe this and even fewer would openly declare it

sendbobs · 02/02/2023 19:04

Botw1 · 02/02/2023 10:28

Lots of women are mysoginists.

Hardly surprising given the sexist society we live in.

Look at the Brit awards and Lorraine Kelly blithely stating that it's just the way it is that the best artists are men

Look at the amount of women who happily give up work and make themselves entirely dependent on men?

Or who say things like oh, no he wouldn't be able to cope with looking after his children.

Look at the amount of women who believe jealousy is a good thing

Who blame the other woman rather than their oh

Who think women who have been sexually assaulted asked for it

Etc etc

Replying to ^

BigMandsTattooPortfolio · 02/02/2023 19:06

The worst, most ugly, most loathesome and revolting lyrics I’ve ever come across are those by The Rolling Stones. Many of their songs are steeped in racism and misogyny, yet no one bats an eyelid about them.

TheGoogleMum · 02/02/2023 19:14

Many songs talk about violent things we don't approve of.
I realise I enjoy the song 'Pumped Up Kicks' but it's about a school shooter so the lyrics are very problematic. Enjoying the song doesn't mean I condone that kind of violence.

watchfulwishes · 02/02/2023 19:18

2023newyearnewname · 02/02/2023 10:31

I was a victim of a serious sexual assault when I was younger and I hoped that things might move on a bit. I had the you walked home in a short skirt and heels comments. Seriously some think that it is ok them for a man to attack if particular clothing is worn.

According to my niece many boys watch porn in her year (11) and choking women and verbal abuse towards them is a thing at present apparently. I mean seriously what the heck.

The reason people say that about e.g. clothing is it makes them feel safer - 'if I do the right thing it won't happen to me'. It is bullshit but comes from a place of fear. Very sorry to hear about your experience Flowers I don't think it was caused by anything you did.

The violent porn watching is very sad for boys and very scary for girls.

VladmirsPoutine · 02/02/2023 19:18

If we are to accept that patriarchy underpins much if not all of how society works then it's not beyond doubt that many women will have adopted this view as the norm because that's very much how it has always been. I agree there is need to challenge these views, of course, but I think there's a very long way to go.

watchfulwishes · 02/02/2023 19:19

BigMandsTattooPortfolio · 02/02/2023 19:06

The worst, most ugly, most loathesome and revolting lyrics I’ve ever come across are those by The Rolling Stones. Many of their songs are steeped in racism and misogyny, yet no one bats an eyelid about them.

Interested in this, I have never really listened to them - which songs particularly?

PaperFun · 02/02/2023 19:25

I don’t like it when I see women laughing off wolf-whistling and catcalling and saying it’s a compliment.

It is a power thing designed to make women feel uncomfortable and I wish people would not downplay it.

BigMandsTattooPortfolio · 02/02/2023 19:37

watchfulwishes · 02/02/2023 19:19

Interested in this, I have never really listened to them - which songs particularly?

Show quote history

Oh, goodness, where to start?

Brown Sugar

Under My Thumb

Some Girls

Stupid Girl

Stray Cats - which is about Jagger wanting to sleep with a 15 year old….

I could go on….

watchfulwishes · 02/02/2023 19:38

BigMandsTattooPortfolio · 02/02/2023 19:37

Oh, goodness, where to start?

Brown Sugar

Under My Thumb

Some Girls

Stupid Girl

Stray Cats - which is about Jagger wanting to sleep with a 15 year old….

I could go on….

Show quote history

Thank you.
I realise I never heard the Stones at home, which is weird as my parents were very into music, I am going to ask why not.
I will read the lyrics. Every day is a school day!

Original poster
2023newyearnewname · 02/02/2023 19:40

I obviously didn't make the OP clear since 2 people think I was being racist and numerous others are going on about the song or songs.

It was about how the woman shrugged off how some men talk about women/what they want to do to women/how they treat women... but hey ho reading skills/ a quick glance and assumption are easier.

Never mind, but will bear in mind next time I post something. Maybe bullet point to say the point I'm asking might help a bit.

OP posts:
Original poster
2023newyearnewname · 02/02/2023 19:42

For the 3rd/4th who knows time @SandraCumin it's NOT about RAP music at all... or any other particular genre.

Oh my, I think I just leave you to stew in your belief it's about rap

OP posts:
Original poster
2023newyearnewname · 02/02/2023 19:51

"VladmirsPoutine · Today 19:18
If we are to accept that patriarchy underpins much if not all of how society works then it's not beyond doubt that many women will have adopted this view as the norm because that's very much how it has always been. I agree there is need to challenge these views, of course, but I think there's a very long way to go."

Indeed, it will take many, many years to get to the belief that men and women are equal and should be treated equally, especially since many people follow what is the societal norm.

I was shocked by HER casual comment (NOT LYRICS OR A SONG) about how ACCEPTING SHE and HER GENERATION was (in her opinion) about language used towards women and what some men want to do to them. 86% on this poll think that SOME women enable misogyny which was the question. Thanks for the replies folks, was interesting.

OP posts:
Pocketfullofdogtreats · 02/02/2023 20:03

Some people seem to be wilfully misunderstanding you, OP.

Aussiegirl123456 · 02/02/2023 20:09

The worst I see is when a woman tells her story of being sexually assaulted and other women comment stuff like ‘no wonder, put some clothes on and it won’t happen’… or ‘well she shouldn’t have been walking home that way by herself’ - very dismal outlook believing poor men can’t control themselves so women have to alter their behaviour so they don’t get assaulted.

phoenixrosehere · 02/02/2023 20:20

Pocketfullofdogtreats · 02/02/2023 20:03

Some people seem to be wilfully misunderstanding you, OP.

Or OP could have chosen a better example and phrased it better.

She was perfectly fine with her first paragraph until she added her example and then ended it with

Or am I just unreasonable, should I just not speak up and accept women should shut up and laugh along with the rappers. Youngish black woman wasn't offended at all about what the rapper says he wants to do with women etc. I found it a bit odd.

She made the focus and mention on rap music, misogyny, and the lack of offence from a black woman which she found “odd”.

It may not have been her intention but she could have written a better example or used more examples to explain what she meant.

VladmirsPoutine · 02/02/2023 20:29

the OP SOUNDS A little STRESSED by THE YOUNG WOMAN on TV THIS morning, NOT yesterday morning but THIS morning.