to assume that parents are legally entitled to time off today?

[needabreak5]

this has been questioned by DH's employer. DS (6) class is closed today due to the strikes. We have no other means of childcare (no family and no paid childcare available). I had meetings this morning that I couldn't really miss but took this afternoon off so DH can work. DH took this morning off (used up accrued TOIL) to cover my meetings, and has been by his employer questioned why he wasn't in the office as they are too busy for time off at the minute - time off wasn't approved in advance. Time off is submitted via a timesheet and has been 'pending approval' for a week. I think regardless that it wasn't officially approved, he had a legal right to the morning off as time off for dependant with no other option. AIBU?

I suppose it could count as emergency parental leave.
Dunno?
Not helpful sorry.

My employer is the same and my understanding is that dependants leave is for an emergency that could not be for seen. We wouldn't be given time for this as it's not unforseen - we have known about the strikes for a while. The ignored time in lieu request is annoying though, but again it often take many reminders to get our management to authorize this.

Yeah we might try to claim under emergency parental leave, but it wouldn't be authorized

thats what annoying, I know the strikes were foreseen, but he submitted the request last week as soon as the school announced that DS's class would be closed. I don't think we had any alternative to the arrangement we made today, so it was emergency dependant leave if the time off couldn't be approved?

Just because you can't avoid it doesn't make it a legal right. Employers getting shitty about this today are being twats though.

The only relevant legal entitlements are parental leave (which must be taken as whole weeks), and time off to deal with an emergency involving a dependant (which doesn't apply as this was known about in advance). Neither of these has a right to pay.

I assume they'd argue that you'd had plenty of time to make other arrangements eg pay for childcare and you can't unilaterally decide not to turn up to work

Legally, probably not. You’re entitled to time off for emergency childcare issues. It doesn’t sound like it will constitute an emergency if the school told you last week. You had a week to rearrange plans or find alternative childcare options. Alternatively, most Y6 children could cope on their own for a few hours.

I’m not saying I agree from a moral standpoint, your DH’s employer sounds like a dick, but I think that’s how the law would go on this. I think it really comes down to how much notice you had. 3 minutes notice would be an emergency, 3 weeks notice wouldn’t be.

Unpaid emergency dependents leave I guess.

Legally, his employer is right. They hadn't approved his leave request, so he didn't have it booked.

Emergency dependants leave also wouldn't apply. This wouldn't class as an emergency, as it was known about in advance. Too, there was actually an alternative - you. Yes, you decided between you that your job was more important this morning, but that doesn't mean his employer has to agree (and nor would yours have to the other way around).

So, legally, they're absolutely right, and he may face consequences.

Morally, however, they're dicks and it's an employees market at the moment, so they're also stupid.

Unpaid leave is for emergencies and there's been loads of notice for this - no an emergency

So no legal entitlement.

Use of toil, annual leave, wfh all depend on employers policies and again no legal entitlement

Did he actually speak to someone to clarify or just assume it wokld be allowed?

I don’t agree that it is as straightforward as other commenters suggest. Legal issues rarely are (speaking as a lawyer!). Imo it is well arguable that the situation was an emergency - your DH was left without childcare from the time he was refused leave. I’d push back on this.

Everyone saying it was known in advance. My kids school only informed us yesterday. They said it may be possible to keep it open.. and would let everyone know on the Tuesday. So we had less than a day to sort childcare. Not easy at all! Luckily I’m on maternity so non issue for us, but others it was!

You can't unilaterally decide not to turn up to work

Unfortunately this.

If I was in his position I'd have been hounding whoever was able to sign off on this. Did he try to ensure the leave was granted? At the end of the day it wasn't approved and your DH is technically in the wrong.... Morally however it's very dubious and totally shit for him.

Out of interest, what do you do when DS is ill / you have meetings you can't cancel?

The OP herself said she knew in advance (some schools seem to have advised further in advance - mine confirmed school closure on 24th Jan)

I was frequently not 'entitled' to time I needed to take to look after my children. So I left my job. Give your head a wobble, employers are not interested in supporting childcare. Work and family life are not compatible they want to make money.

A lack of childcare (known about a week in advance) isn't a reason to just not show up to work. His lack of childcare also isn't his employers' problem - strikes or no strikes.

He didn't have his leave approved and just chose not to show up at work. That's gross misconduct in lots of places and I'm afraid I would expect him to be disciplined for this.

As parents, it's ultimately your responsibility to have childcare in place for things like this - and you had a week of notice, so it wan't an emergency or a last-minute issue either.

Just because you need it doesn't mean it's a legal right. Employers don't legally have to give time off at short notice unless you the employee is sick. Many employers are helpful and flexible, but legal right, no

Technically no, it's not a legal right. The legal right to time off in an emergency is to respond immediately to the emergency and to arrange for care not to do it oneself. Most employers are flexible, but that didn't mean they have to be, not that they have to like it. It's also unpaid, if the employer wants to be pedantic.

I don't think we had any alternative to the arrangement we made today, so it was emergency dependant leave if the time off couldn't be approved?

Well - yes. You can't just stay off work without getting permission from your employer - it's gross misconduct in most places.

You had a week to sort this out - DS could have gone to a classmate for the day, you could have paid for emergency childcare (it is out there, but it's not cheap) or, between you, you could have spoken to your employers in person and both come to an arrangement.

Did he speak to someone and the leave request was rejected? If he didn't speak to anyone he has acted very unreasonably just not showing up for work.

Not having childcare arranged is not the same as emergency dependency leave which is for unforeseen circumstances.

I don't think that a disruption in school services should create any legal obligation for employers in other sectors to make accommodations for this. In many instances, employers have to keep to their schedules , commitments, and deadlines regardless of what happens with the schools.

Parents of school age children should always have Plan B backup for such situations and you should not rely on your employer to be your backup plan.

It is great when employers are able to accommodate, but that should not be your expectation nor should it be their legal obligation.

If you have a week’s notice regardless of when the school confirmed it cannot be classed as an emergency as you’ve had 7 days to sort something. Having leave declined doesn’t then make it emergency leave. I’m presuming that you have no parents that you have befriended at the school gates that could have watched them for half a day. Your husband should have chased up his request with a superior or you could have chosen your child over a meeting you couldn’t really miss if you woke up poorly you would have missed it. Meetings can be rearranged, recorded etc. Sorting childcare in these circumstances is an extra stress neither of you need but the pair of you don’t seem very organised considering the amount of time you were given in notice to arrange something..

Thanks for the replies - to clarify DS is age 6 (not Y6), so cant really be left alone. We also have a DC age 4 but nursery was open.

Out of interest, what do you do when DS is ill / you have meetings you can't cancel?

Again we would juggle between us depending on whose work commitments we think are more time critical / or a hassle to cancel on that given day. If i dont have meetings, my employer can be a bit flexible and i can make up hours evenings and weekends when DH is back from work (he is unable to WFH except extreme circumstances).
Today we have both been very busy unfortunately, so a bit of a clash. My meetings were in person and weren't easy to cancel. DH's leave wasn't actually refused it was in the system pending approval so i just went ahead to work and was for the afternoon.

I'm not sure what 'paid childcare' we could have organised today? We usually use school, wraparound and holiday clubs.

I think this is one of those instances where men are discriminated against in the workplace. Employers fail to take it seriously that they have a childcare issue.