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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Should some songs never be sung again?

363 replies

Atethehalloweenchocs · 31/01/2023 21:57

I was at a social event where there was various songs which we were singing along to. One of which was Delilah. Obviously the content is abhorrent, but its a banger of a tune, and something that loads of people know. The day after, found an old playlist with a bunch of Michael Jackson stuff on. AIBU to think it is ok to sing along to a song with a good tune even if the content or artist is problematic?

OP posts:
notacooldad · 01/02/2023 21:45

Once we have exhausted the songs we shouldn't be listening to and artists that have a questionable moral compass should we stop using inventions by brilliant but flawed inventors?

piggypoole · 01/02/2023 21:49

piggypoole · 01/02/2023 21:29

Clare by Gilbert O'Sullivan Ugh

Look up the lyrics

ReneBumsWombats · 01/02/2023 21:54

SecretPeston · 01/02/2023 19:50

"Don't say a word, my virgin child" kind of suggests that he is referring to a young person.

Read the lyrics again.

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I didn't really spot that. "Child" is often used in song lyrics in the same way as "baby".

ScribblingPixie · 01/02/2023 21:59

Like Jimi Hendrix' Voodoo Chile/Child. It doesn't literally mean child.

FancyFanny · 01/02/2023 22:00

piggypoole · 01/02/2023 21:49

Look up the lyrics

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But isn't the whole point of this song to make you initially think it's a romantic song until you realise Clair is little girl? It's whole intention is to play with the listener!

Nanny0gg · 01/02/2023 22:07

CousinKrispy · 01/02/2023 09:23

That is so amazingly crap!! Thank you for sharing, it's given me a laugh.

Reminds me a bit of The Seekers' song:
Hey there, Georgy girl
Swinging down the street so fancy-free
Nobody you meet could ever see the loneliness there inside you
Hey there, Georgy girl
Why do all the boys just pass you by?
Could it be you just don't try or is it the clothes you wear?
You're always window shopping but never stopping to buy
So shed those dowdy feathers and fly a little bit

I find the lyrics so cringey but it's a really compelling tune!

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And was the theme to a very famous film of the time

ScribblingPixie · 01/02/2023 22:08

Claire was written by Gilbert O'Sullivan as a gift to her parents, about the nightmare of babysitting her (together with her brothers and sisters; she was the little naughty one) yet how adorable she was. They're still in touch.

Nanny0gg · 01/02/2023 22:11

CockSpadget · 01/02/2023 09:41

There are thousands of tracks that use that word.

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There was a Checkpoint Charlie
He didn't crack a smile
But it's no laughing party
When you've been on the murder mile
Only takes one itchy trigger
One more widow one less white n*r
Oliver's Army is here to stay
Oliver's Army are on their way
And I would rather be anywhere else
than here today

About NI and the British troops

NeverDropYourMooncup · 01/02/2023 22:12

Honper · 01/02/2023 00:09

You'd have to go a long way to find an artiste/group that didn't do a single objectionable thing or sing a single objectionable line, really.

From cousin-fucking to teen grooming, to mafia lording, to turf shootings, the tunes you listen to and films you watch are made by flawed people living lives of excess. This is why parents didn't want their daughters seeing Elvis on telly 70 years ago. It's rock and roll and celebrity and it's never been known for clean living.

If you want that, go and listen to a nice bit of Gregorian chant. Although, the church hardly has lily white hands ...

Neither did the composers - OK, it's Renaissance polyphony rather than Gregorian chant, but Gesualdo definitely counts as an arsehole, for a start.

Kanaloa · 01/02/2023 22:14

FancyFanny · 01/02/2023 22:00

But isn't the whole point of this song to make you initially think it's a romantic song until you realise Clair is little girl? It's whole intention is to play with the listener!

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It was a big trend at the time. Songs like Save All Your Kisses or Memphis, Tennessee etc build up a ‘romantic’ storyline then reveal at some point they are actually talking about a daughter/child. So in Memphis, Tennessee he’s singing about a girl calling him and he missed the call, and how he was torn apart from his special girl because her ‘mom didn’t agree’ then it’s revealed Marie is his 6yo daughter.

Nanny0gg · 01/02/2023 22:15

stayathomer · 01/02/2023 10:23

Did many people know about the Delilah song? How did it get so popular? (And how was the melody used in a weetabix ad?!)

Well, one thing you can say about Tom Jones and his songs is that you can generally hear every word.

But I just don't think that people thought too much about what the song was saying

Nanny0gg · 01/02/2023 22:17

ancientgran · 01/02/2023 10:43

I haven't read anything by Polanski so didn't know that.

I also wonder what the parents were thinking, I remember Mandy Smith's mother seemed quite happy with the relationship, with the Polanski case I vaguely remember the 13 year old was at his home for him to take photos, she was unhappy as previous session had involved topless or nude photos and yet she was there without a chaperone. It doesn't excuse Wyman or the Polanski but it does seem odd to say the least.

Sorry bit off topic.

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Mandy Smith's mother married Bill Wyman's son...

piggypoole · 01/02/2023 22:18

DontTouchMePlease · 31/01/2023 22:17

Gary Glitter -Leader of the gang.
sometimes it pops into my head and I find myself singing
”Come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on..”
Then I remember he’s a filthy paedophile and his foot stomping tune from the 70’s, played at our primary school discos, isn’t one I should be singing.

He signs I'm the one who put the bang in gang ugh

Nanny0gg · 01/02/2023 22:29

piggypoole · 01/02/2023 21:29

Clare by Gilbert O'Sullivan Ugh

It was a song about his niece! Nothing sleazy there at all

Clawdy · 01/02/2023 22:53

So many songs about teenage girls are actually supposed to be about their teenage boy friends. So many people now seem to assume they're about older guys. Most of them aren't.

WinterFoxes · 01/02/2023 22:57

BellePeppa · 01/02/2023 09:32

I think the main difference is the groupies culture back then. There were a lot of very eager groupies in those days and age was probably never mentioned. Not defending that of course but I don’t think Bowie was ever a danger on the street to girls. I would imagine looking back he was could have been appalled at the lack of his own boundaries in the 1970s rock culture. I can listen to Bowie but I can’t listen to Glitter.

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That's a good point. I know someone underage who slept with Bowie. She was fifteen, so old enoygh to know that he turned her on. Probably too young to deal with the emotional realisation it was a ONS. But she was pretty happy about it and as an adult had no hang ups about it. It was just an adventure in her youth.

Blackfleece · 01/02/2023 23:21

piggypoole · 01/02/2023 21:29

Clare by Gilbert O'Sullivan Ugh

You really should Google and find out the actual story about Clare and Gilbert.

Blackfleece · 01/02/2023 23:26

I like the way these threads wizz on with all the outraged people completely ignoring the posters who suggest that writing a song is like writing any other work of fiction. I guess singing the songs could be compared to acting in a play or movie as well. Oh, let's get outraged about the words of Delilah because a jealous man kills his cheating wife. But no problem with, hmm let's think, an actor playing a deranged serial killer in You.

ChellyT · 01/02/2023 23:47

Cuppasoupmonster · 31/01/2023 22:24

You can’t help an ear worm but I wouldn’t play it if it was lostprophets for example…

I literally came here to say this too!

DemiColon · 02/02/2023 01:26

Clawdy · 01/02/2023 22:53

So many songs about teenage girls are actually supposed to be about their teenage boy friends. So many people now seem to assume they're about older guys. Most of them aren't.

Yeah, this is true, and it doesn't necessarily relate to the actual age of the singer. For a long time rock and pop were really seen as a teen thing, and many singers tried to look and talk and dress like teens way past the time they were that age, because that was kind of the job. They needed to sing their teen songs for teens to listen to. It wasn't meant to be some kind of heartfelt Nirvanaesque self-revelation.

There were no videos, not so much tv, so it was quite possible to maintain that illusion. of youth It was mostly stuff people heard on the radio. There were lots of people who thought The Righteous Brothers were white for years, and my father once described seeing Neil Sedaka in a parade, and being surprised he was a short plump little guy who looked like someone's uncle.

DemiColon · 02/02/2023 01:27

Arg - should say above, they thought the Righteous Brothers were black.

That's what I get for trying to make my sentence clearer.

Saschka · 02/02/2023 01:42

Deathbyfluffy · 31/01/2023 23:02

We’re talking about not singing songs etc for reasons that have merit - not one person’s crackpot views.

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There’s a reason we only sing one verse these days:

Lord, grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring;
May he sedition hush,
and like a torrent rush
Rebellious Scots to crush!
God save the King!

Chouetted · 02/02/2023 04:02

Atethehalloweenchocs · 01/02/2023 21:28

Had to step away from the computer after I posted so just getting back to it now - thanks for all the interesting comments. For the record, I dont believe in censorship and understand attitudes change over time so lyrics and stories in older songs may not reflect current values. I only used Tom Jones and Delilah as an example as it was sung at an event I went to, and I enjoyed it- but of course there has been a lot of news recently about violence towards women which made me reflect on the lyrics in a way I had not before (btw it is not clear that it is his partner - he says she was his woman but could have just decided that, and it is pretty clear he feels justified in killing her. Also clear how many people have never really thought about the lyrics before, which is where I was). And MJ came up on a play list the next day when I was thinking about this. I agree that if we hold the past to the attitudes of the current we would eliminate so much art. Better to understand it with thoughtful commentary about why this is out of date. Makes me think about pulling down statues too, but I think that is a whole other debate. And for the person who called me a puritan, er, ok, not sure how you got there but whatever.

See, I don't why you think it is out of date.

Delilah will be out of date when women are no longer killed, not before.

I still feel the narrator is very conflicted. He paints a picture of a deceptive woman out to snare him and betray him (like the biblical Delilah - choice of name no coincidence), but then after the murder he begs for forgiveness. That's just not what people who feel justified do.

After all, he's singing "Why? Why? Why?", not "Die! Die! Die!". The way some people talk about it, you'd think it was the latter.

To be honest, the song really makes me reflect on my own capabilities for passion, jealousy and anger. I may never have killed anyone, but I've certainly thought thoughts I'm not proud of. Humans are gonna human.

Zebedee55 · 02/02/2023 04:40

Wales RFU have now banned Delilah from being sung at the Six Nations tournament, or future events.

Good luck with that idea - fans generally sing what they want to. 🙄

news.sky.com/story/welsh-rugby-union-bans-delilah-being-sung-at-principality-stadium-12800771

Chouetted · 02/02/2023 04:42

Zebedee55 · 02/02/2023 04:40

Wales RFU have now banned Delilah from being sung at the Six Nations tournament, or future events.

Good luck with that idea - fans generally sing what they want to. 🙄

news.sky.com/story/welsh-rugby-union-bans-delilah-being-sung-at-principality-stadium-12800771

From the link you posted - "While "Delilah" has been banned from the WRU's official playlists there hasn't been any restrictions on fans singing the song."