Should some songs never be sung again?

[Atethehalloweenchocs]

I was at a social event where there was various songs which we were singing along to. One of which was Delilah. Obviously the content is abhorrent, but its a banger of a tune, and something that loads of people know. The day after, found an old playlist with a bunch of Michael Jackson stuff on. AIBU to think it is ok to sing along to a song with a good tune even if the content or artist is problematic?

@PortiasBiscuit

Actually a lot of opera has dubious storylines- great music though

My dad's party piece used to be "You're 16, you're beautiful and your mine....". About 10 years ago or more my mam started to make comments about it being inappropriate but she never said anything to him - just me afaik. Not sure where I stood on it tbh - until now when this thread started.

Woo
You come on like a dream
Peaches and cream
Lips like strawberry wine
You're sixteen, you're beautiful and you're mine (ooh, mine all mine)
You're all ribbons and curls (ooh)
Ooh, what a girl (ooh)
Eyes that sparkle and shine (ooh)
You're sixteen, you're beautiful and you're mine (ooh)
Mine all mine, mine, mine, mine

You're my baby, you're my pet (ooh wah, wah)
We fell in love on the night we met (ooh wah, wah, wah)
You touched my hand, my heart went pop (ooh)
Ooh, when we kissed I could not stop (ooh)
You walked out of my dreams, and into my arms (ahh)
Now you're my angel divine (ahh)
You're sixteen, you're beautiful and you're mine (ooh wah, wah, wah)
You're my baby, you're my pet (ooh wah, wah, wah)
We fell in love on the night we met (ooh, we fell in love)
You touched my hand, my heart went pop (ooh what a night, ooh what a night)
Ooh, when we kissed I could not stop (ooh-ooh)
You walked out of my dreams, and into my car (ahh)
Now you're my angel divine
You're sixteen, you're beautiful, and you're mine (ooh wah, wah, wah)
You're sixteen, you're beautiful, and you're mine (ooh wah, wah, wah)
You're sixteen, so beautiful, and you're mine (ooh wah, wah, wah)
All mine, all mine, all mine (ooh wah, wah, wah)
All mine, all mine, all mine (ooh wah, wah, wah)

My sister bought a painting by Rolf Harris, before his crimes were revealed. It made my skin crawl that she kept this painting up afterwards though.

I typed up a long post that for some reason MN decided to withhold for review. Goodness knows why. I pointed out that Oliver's Army was written in 1978 as a scathing political comment on the situation in Northern Ireland. The phrase "one less white n**r" reflected the anger behind the song.

If we're going to censor the Police song about a stalker, or Tom Jones for singing a song about a man who murdered his two-timing partner - what about fictional novels? The writers of books and poetry aren't recommending or endorsing murder, nor are they saying they would commit murder - they are writing about a situation that they imagined. Sometimes they write based on their feelings about a real life situation. That's what song writers do.
How far do we want to erase art and imagination? Control what people imagine or choose to think about?
I live with a musician who is retired from performing but still writing songs for other artists. He's constantly wandering about thinking of situations he's heard about, or imagined, or speculated about and pondering turning them into words and music. He's not a jealous man, but he writes about jealousy. He's not a young man out looking for a hot woman (any more) but he can write about it. 😂

No he didn't - but is isn't music I would reach for nowadays anyway. His association with it though, is what doomed it to the shredder. Also, rare for me, as I would never actually dispose of sheet music - I have a copy of The Londonderry Air from my Great-grandmother's childhood!
(Wracks brain wondering of the writer, composer or lyrics to that are offensive....)

I didn't think there were allegations as much as boasts.

I always thought it was 'her daddy' at the time.

Ooops - me too!

Sorry but bowie did not go with 13 year olds.

I mean even if it was ‘your daddy’ it’s still not the best message ever, is it? That rich men will treat you nicely and make an effort, and poor men will just try it on with you!

I don’t think I’ve ever thought about lyrics so carefully 😂

Delilah is based on the bible story! Read it.

Her Daddy

Delilah always reminds me of Carmen. It feels a bit hypocritical to cancel songs about murder whilst crime fiction, true crime podcasts and tv shows are having a massive boom in popularity, especially amongst women.

Censorious cultures never lead anywhere good. History has repeatedly proven this, as shown by that old adage about societies that begin by burning books.

The 20th-century literary canon would be empty were every author with fascist, racist, misogynist, or subversive views scrubbed from it. You can lose a lot more who have used charged or sensitive language in any context.

T S Eliot, D H Lawrence, Joseph Conrad, Enid Blyton, Virginia Woolf, Stephen King, Roald Dahl and H G Wells would be goners for starters. And don't even get me started on J K Rowling. I will not be told what to read, or what to think. It's just as irritating to keep seeing 'trigger warnings' on everything.

Same goes for music as far as I'm concerned. It's excessively irritating to see words bleeped out and dubbed over, especially when everyone knows what the original word was in the first place and the censorship attempts are merely drawing more attention to it, rather than less.

There's art, and there are artists. Maybe Roland Barthes had a point about the death of the author. But I'm with the objectors to the national anthem. Quite aside from the principle of an unelected head of state, it's an uninspiring, mournful dirge and it's just not very good.

Did she cut the bloke's hair off?

Mike Jagger and Bowie both confessed to having sex with 13 year old groupies. Chrissie Hynde defended it because she claims it was what the girls wanted. There was drinking and drug taking. Both were given to the girls. When you consider how Polanski was pursued (I'm not saying that is wrong) yet so many others ignored, the stuff around it being because he is Jewish does ring true.

Delilah is based on the bible story! Read it.
there’s so many different explanations on the internet, unless I was totally confused there’s three different people credited for writing it, one wrote it for a girl he liked called Delilah and presented it to her in a creepy way!!!!

Lori Mattix/Sable Starr etc., the "Baby Groupies" (grim term) of the 1970s California rock scene:
www.theguardian.com/music/2018/mar/15/i-wouldnt-want-this-for-anybodys-daughter-will-metoo-kill-off-the-rocknroll-groupie

Iggy Pop, Jimmy Page & co (and hangers-on) seem to have shared far too many underage girls around. Really predatory and vile behaviour, which was sadly normalised. Celebrated, even.

"I slept with Sable when she was 13
Her parents were too rich to do anything
She rocked her way around L.A.
Till a New York Doll carried her away".

- 'Look Away' by Iggy Pop
(written in 1996, age 49, revisiting the 'fun times' of 1970)

Yes that’s the one

I have a painting of the white cottage in Glen Coe, I love it.
Jimmy Saville owned it for a while, there is video of him and Prince Charles there.
It may be inappropriate but I find this hilarious, I have a picture of Jimmy Seville’s house on my wall.

It's an example of people totally unable to understand the context that underlies the joke and so taking it literally when it's all tongue in cheek.

Hmmmm. There is one Lostprophets song that I will always listen to privately, although I wouldn't play it publicly. Similarly I still like Ignition by R.K.

But is there a distinction between songs that simply have a questionable story to tell/lyrics, Vs songs with disgusting artists who have done vile things? Songs tell stories that doesn't always mean that the singer is saying what happens in the song is OK.

The lyrics for Avenged Sevenfold - A Little Piece of Heaven, or Blue October - The End are... Well. But they are good songs.

That's 'Hey there, Delilah' which is a different song. The Tom Jones Delilah is a fictional story, not based on Delilah from the bible, just a 'crime of passion' story. Like so many TV programs, books, films, podcasts....

I don't see the problem with Delilah, it's sung in character, as a PP says, like Nick Cave's murder ballads. It's not Tom Jones saying he thinks it's a good idea to murder you'r unfaithful girlfriend. I don't think you're supposed to find the characters in A Fairytale of New York instantly likeable or admire their lifestyle decisions. either but people love the song., as I do.

As for some of the groupie discussions, there was maybe a slightly different attitude to age back then, although I was a teenager in the mid to late 80s. In my day it was less common to stay on at school, it was for the more academic. Most people left at 16, and I believe you could join the forces at 16 too. In the small rural town that I lived in, if you wanted to be a nurse you often left school at 16 and lived in the nurses home 30 miles away. The school leaving age was 15 until 1972, when most of these rock stars were growing up. So a 14 or 15 year old was viewed a bit differently, rightly or wrongly

Save your lecture for someone who gives a fuck.

I merely stated a song title, that was it ffs. I like that song. Jump on someone else love.