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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Should some songs never be sung again?

363 replies

Atethehalloweenchocs · 31/01/2023 21:57

I was at a social event where there was various songs which we were singing along to. One of which was Delilah. Obviously the content is abhorrent, but its a banger of a tune, and something that loads of people know. The day after, found an old playlist with a bunch of Michael Jackson stuff on. AIBU to think it is ok to sing along to a song with a good tune even if the content or artist is problematic?

OP posts:
ZingDramaQueenOfSheeba · 01/02/2023 15:01

I'd like to obliterate the Baby Shark song.
It should be extinct.

DemiColon · 01/02/2023 15:02

ancientgran · 01/02/2023 10:43

I haven't read anything by Polanski so didn't know that.

I also wonder what the parents were thinking, I remember Mandy Smith's mother seemed quite happy with the relationship, with the Polanski case I vaguely remember the 13 year old was at his home for him to take photos, she was unhappy as previous session had involved topless or nude photos and yet she was there without a chaperone. It doesn't excuse Wyman or the Polanski but it does seem odd to say the least.

Sorry bit off topic.

Yeah, the parents are an interesting element.

Talking to my own mum, who was a teen at that time, I really think a lot of people were caught between two clashing worldviews. On the one hand, it wasn't uncommon for teens to be in many ways more like adults. People left school at 15 or 16 and went to work, might marry at 17 or 18. Younger teens were seen as relativly closer to adulthood.

In the older paradigm, the younger teens would have largely been protected, and even when they started being adult at, say, 16, would have lived at home, and their parents would have a lot of influence on who they saw. Sex was dangerous because you could get pregnant or an incurable STI. So the whole thing was serious.

Then all of a sudden there is this idea that sex is safe and recreational, and protecting teens who want sex is oppressive. And we can see now, there are really parents who just believe whatever the dominant progressive culture says, and of course some of the girls themselves were quite keen to be involved.

Even now plenty of parents will let their teens have all the sex they want so long as it's with boys close to their own age. Who aren't necessarily good people just because they are younger.

Whatsshecalled · 01/02/2023 15:05

Different genre of music entirely, but I was wondering recently if primary schools still sing 'Lord of the dance' at school (my kids are totally unfamiliar with it) Seems so inappropriate now that as little kids we used to happily sing: "they whipped him and stripped him and hung him high and left him there on the cross to die" to such a cheery, upbeat tune. Wierd.

NewspaperTaxis · 01/02/2023 15:29

Kanaloa · 01/02/2023 13:49

I mean even if it was ‘your daddy’ it’s still not the best message ever, is it? That rich men will treat you nicely and make an effort, and poor men will just try it on with you!

I don’t think I’ve ever thought about lyrics so carefully 😂

See what you mean - actually should disclose I'm a bloke here - but I took it to mean, lucky sod if you've got the money to spoil yourself and her, if you're skint (and of course this song is aimed at teenagers really) then just hang out, go for a walk in the park or what seems right. Sort of Gregory's Girl scenario.
Later it's 'have a drink, have a drive' etc - the writer admitted later this wasn't good!

LydiaBin · 01/02/2023 15:34

I can't hear In the Summertime without thinking about the Drink Drive campaign it was used in during the 90s. It's just eerie to me now. (And also a bit Fred West: 'Go out and see what you can find' - ew.)

ancientgran · 01/02/2023 15:38

Whatsshecalled · 01/02/2023 15:05

Different genre of music entirely, but I was wondering recently if primary schools still sing 'Lord of the dance' at school (my kids are totally unfamiliar with it) Seems so inappropriate now that as little kids we used to happily sing: "they whipped him and stripped him and hung him high and left him there on the cross to die" to such a cheery, upbeat tune. Wierd.

Pretty mild when I remember the nuns telling us to imagine the pain as the nails were hammered in particularly important to remember that the nails went through his wrists not his hands as the hands would just rip apart but it would be so much more agonising through the wrist. I think we'd have been about 9. The weird thing is I don't remember anyone getting upset or having nightmares.

The jolly music doesn't really go with it but I was at school when nuns learning to guitar to play things like this was popular. The sight of a nun with a guitar case caused me more distress than anything else.

Kanaloa · 01/02/2023 15:39

NewspaperTaxis · 01/02/2023 15:29

See what you mean - actually should disclose I'm a bloke here - but I took it to mean, lucky sod if you've got the money to spoil yourself and her, if you're skint (and of course this song is aimed at teenagers really) then just hang out, go for a walk in the park or what seems right. Sort of Gregory's Girl scenario.
Later it's 'have a drink, have a drive' etc - the writer admitted later this wasn't good!

Oh yeah I suppose. Maybe I have a disgusting mind 😂 I took ‘what you feel’ to mean something entirely different!

Weird how people hear songs totally different. I remember recently seeing Joan Armatrading talking about how people hear songs their own way and how she’s heard of people using her song ‘The Weakness in Me’ for their first wedding dance 😳 the song is about the narrator agonising over the affair they are having behind the back of their long term partner!

ReneBumsWombats · 01/02/2023 15:53

NewspaperTaxis · 01/02/2023 15:29

See what you mean - actually should disclose I'm a bloke here - but I took it to mean, lucky sod if you've got the money to spoil yourself and her, if you're skint (and of course this song is aimed at teenagers really) then just hang out, go for a walk in the park or what seems right. Sort of Gregory's Girl scenario.
Later it's 'have a drink, have a drive' etc - the writer admitted later this wasn't good!

I don't think it can be that because it's talking about how much money she's got, and there's no mention of how much money the "you" of the song has. Even as a child I remember being perturbed that rich girls got better treatment!

It's problematic for several reasons, as we know. But I think most people can reason with that. We still play it in summer at my Zumba class.

John Lennon did say in later years that he regretted some of his earlier songs. Run For Your Life is particularly terrible, but it's also objectively a shit song so it's no loss if you don't play it. Shame Norwegian Wood is so good!

SecretPeston · 01/02/2023 16:10

Thisbastardcomputer · 31/01/2023 23:06

Rod Stewart's, tonight's the night, truly disgusting

Totally agree and I can't believe he never got pulled up on this vile song.

ReneBumsWombats · 01/02/2023 17:13

SecretPeston · 01/02/2023 16:10

Totally agree and I can't believe he never got pulled up on this vile song.

I just looked up the lyrics and I don't see the problem? He's saying she's a virgin but no suggestion that she's a child or unconsenting?

DemiColon · 01/02/2023 17:38

gogohmm · 01/02/2023 12:09

I remember mick jagger saying in an interview, girls were throwing themselves at them each night, sneaking into their hotel rooms - if asked they would claim to be over 26 but they never checked their passports for their ages. He said he wasn't proud of their behaviour with such young girls but they were young themselves and couldn't believe their luck, plus drunk and stoned.

It's still like this with a lot of rock bands, though I think there is a lot more general awareness of the possibility of criminal charges now. But being in a bubble where large numbers of women are desperate to do anything to go to bed with you makes people lose perspective. Like anything, over time people start to think it's reflective of what is normal and it makes their judgement poor.

If someone has multiple women every night willing to engage in crazy sex acts to get his attention, of course it skews his perspective of what women really like and enjoy.

That whole culture is very toxic to everyone in it.

DemiColon · 01/02/2023 17:47

Why does Tom Jones get criticized but not Hendrix? It's basically a similar scenario, "I'm going down to shoot my old lady, I caught her messin' around with another man."

As far as in the Summertime, I thought of it more that the singer is looking to get laid either way, but with a girl from a rich family, she'll expect to be taken out to dinner first. Which is maybe a little unsavoury but I suspect would have been true in many cases.

fortheloveofflowers · 01/02/2023 19:02

@KimberleyClark well the tune is quite a happy tune but he is talking about stabbing her. I've never paid that much attention to the words before that's all.

CaptainMyCaptain · 01/02/2023 19:10

fortheloveofflowers · 01/02/2023 19:02

@KimberleyClark well the tune is quite a happy tune but he is talking about stabbing her. I've never paid that much attention to the words before that's all.

I never heard it as a happy tune. It's supposed to be anguished, desperate. I agree with people who consider it in the same way as any other work of fiction like a novel or a poem. It's not advocating murder.

FancyFanny · 01/02/2023 19:42

Marigoldandivy · 01/02/2023 08:21

Living Doll, Cliff Richard. ‘Gonna lock her up in a trunk….’ Ick.

Ha ha ha, if you're taking this song seriously enough to be upset about it then we do not live on the same planet!

FancyFanny · 01/02/2023 19:44

LydiaBin · 01/02/2023 09:51

My DM was always baffled about the modern outrage over Baby It's Cold Outside: at the time, she claimed, it was assumed that the woman wanted to stay just as much as the man did, but had to find a 'reason' because of judgemental parents/brothers/aunts, etc. Yes, it's sad that women had to resort to coy excuses to avoid judgement, but she wasn't clawing at the door to avoid Dean Martin's rohypnol.

Exactly this!

SecretPeston · 01/02/2023 19:50

ReneBumsWombats · 01/02/2023 17:13

I just looked up the lyrics and I don't see the problem? He's saying she's a virgin but no suggestion that she's a child or unconsenting?

"Don't say a word, my virgin child" kind of suggests that he is referring to a young person.

Read the lyrics again.

FancyFanny · 01/02/2023 19:57

Songs aren't written as a mantra to live your life by!

Tom Jones (and whoever wrote Delilah) wasn't suggesting that killing your girlfriend if she cheats on you is the right thing to do! It's just a story told from the perspective of the killer, that's all. It's a great tune, with a dramatic story line which is why it's so popular.

Likewise, 'Living Doll' isn't suggesting that it's ok to lock girls in trunks, it's an acknowledgement that dolls are kept in trunks (toy chests) and he's likening his girlfriend to a doll as she's so beautiful. And at the end of the day it's only a fun song and trunk rhymes with hunk. Best version ever was the comic relief version with Cliff andThe Young Ones. 😁

FancyFanny · 01/02/2023 19:58

You do all know 16 year olds have sex, and it's perfectly legal!

Atethehalloweenchocs · 01/02/2023 21:28

Had to step away from the computer after I posted so just getting back to it now - thanks for all the interesting comments. For the record, I dont believe in censorship and understand attitudes change over time so lyrics and stories in older songs may not reflect current values. I only used Tom Jones and Delilah as an example as it was sung at an event I went to, and I enjoyed it- but of course there has been a lot of news recently about violence towards women which made me reflect on the lyrics in a way I had not before (btw it is not clear that it is his partner - he says she was his woman but could have just decided that, and it is pretty clear he feels justified in killing her. Also clear how many people have never really thought about the lyrics before, which is where I was). And MJ came up on a play list the next day when I was thinking about this. I agree that if we hold the past to the attitudes of the current we would eliminate so much art. Better to understand it with thoughtful commentary about why this is out of date. Makes me think about pulling down statues too, but I think that is a whole other debate. And for the person who called me a puritan, er, ok, not sure how you got there but whatever.

OP posts:
piggypoole · 01/02/2023 21:29

Clare by Gilbert O'Sullivan Ugh

piggypoole · 01/02/2023 21:31

Don't hear under my thumb anymore

lollipoprainbow · 01/02/2023 21:31

piggypoole · 01/02/2023 21:29

Clare by Gilbert O'Sullivan Ugh

Urgh why ?? So predictable

notacooldad · 01/02/2023 21:33

I've always been a bit uncomfortable with the "come on Eileen" lyrics
Why? I never thought it was sung ( character wise) by an older creepy bloke but by a peer of 'Eileen'

Butteredtoast55 · 01/02/2023 21:34

MargotMoon · 31/01/2023 22:34

Whenever I see the band name 'Showaddywaddy' written down I say it in my head in Jimmy Savile's voice and find it funny. I can't help it but I know it's wrong

This really made me laugh and that's probably even wronger! 😂