Supporting nhs consultant doctors industrial action

[Lapland123]

I hope this has public support. Consultants have seen the largest pay erosion in public services- now 35 % pay erosion since 2010.

Add the pension debacle, where we are asked for real money now for a theoretical glitch in how pensions are calculated. The ‘real money ‘ bill now can be 6+ months of your take home pay annually. Yes, really.

Vacancies exist in multiple specialties and the day to day job is more and more difficult in the context of vacancies throughout the nhs

I hope we have support for industrial action due to this government’s disgraceful erosion of our pay though we are working harder than ever

What's the average salary of an NHS consultant doctor?

Yep, mainly over the pensions debacle as we are going to lose a load when there are already shortages- this would also impact the training pipeline and make the bottlenecks even worse.

What's the average salary of an NHS consultant doctor?

Significantly below what it is in comparable countries if that helps?

Yes I support them

Im actually really scared for the future.

My local hospital is facing a retirement crisis of consultants with no plan of how to replace them

Starting salary after 5 years med school, 3 years foundation and 6 minimal specialty training is around 84k- so with all those minimal years you would be mid thirties?

after 20 years as a consultant -so into your 50’s- it has risen to 119 k

@Pandaphonium and that is?

Yes it’s significantly higher in other countries

You can Google the pay scale, it’s not a secret

its good to be clear on the years of training needed before you start on it

lots of misperceptions about doctors salaries out there

Yea I support.

I'm 17 operations is, I would be nowhere without 'my' consultant surgeon.

My DB is a consultant. The pension issue has hit them hard, paying back years and years or student loans takes away a lot of pay.

They may be on a higher salary than average but they most definitely deserve it both for the risk and what it's taken to get where they are.

(I do hope my upcoming surgery isn't cancelled but if it is it is)

higher than average for sure, but for the level of skill and responsibility they deserve it.

but that’s besides the point. We need them (not only to do their jobs but to go above and beyond to cover the cracks in the NHS), and they increasingly aren’t willing to work in the NHS anymore. Whether you think they deserve it or not, they aren’t easily replaced and they’re leaving in droves.

the pension thing in particular should be remedied immediately.

What I don't understand in all of these pay disputes is I thought that the Tories were fans of markets.
Currently it is very clear that in many job markets the pay is not enough to attract people. So what you clearly need to do is cut pay.

jgw1 ·

am I misinterpreting you- you suggest cutting pay ?! Lol!

you must be on glue, or feeling exceptionally healthy for the coming decade

pay erosion and pension theft is the primary reason for consultants no longer being able to/ afford to be able to remain in nhs

It needs fixing

Can someone explain the pension issue? I’ve not come across that mentioned before.

Yes I support consultants. I am fearful for the future, we are not training enough doctors, nurses and other essential clinicians.

We have a generation of doctors that will soon be reaching retirement age and not nearly enough people to replace them.

The future is looking very bleak for most except the very wealthy that will be able to afford private care.

I completely support you OP. How anyone can start a “what’s the average salary” question is not worth engaging with.

You deserve a pay rise (way above inflation) for the level of responsibility, the skills, knowledge, hours ….
let alone how you’ve been screwed over by the Tories with your pension.

I’m glad the profession has decided to take industrial action, enough is enough.

Do I think consultants are with every penny - absolutely! They've saved the life of my daughter on numerous occasions.

Would I support strike action at this time - sadly no.

Even with a real terms cut, consultants earn enough that are more able to cut expenditure rather than the basic necessities of life, than many.

In the longer term, their business needs to go up to make the job competitive, but with the COLC, I'd rather we use any extra money we can find/raise, on lower paid workers, who might genuinely have to choose between warmth and food.

If we have enough money for both, then brilliant, but let's start with those with the most need.

I can’t really explain the financial reasons behind it, but doctors are ending up receiving tax bills of up to £50k of their NET income to pay tax on notional pension growth.

As a result, large numbers of them are cutting their hours or leaving the NHS to avoid this.

Thanks to those who support

Sadly if this huge pay erosion is not addressed, as well as the pension theft, more and more nhs consultant posts will be vacated

Surely this is in no one’s interest

I won’t respond any more to posters who say ‘what’s the average salary’ etc as that’s not what’s being discussed here

Urgh, typos, but basically

Medium to long term = need a good increase to remain competitive

Short term = I'd rather spread about extra money on a larger number of lower paid individuals, where that money could make a difference on whether they could eat or not.

Say a 10% pay rise equates to £10,000 a year for a consultant or 3 nurses could have a 10% pay rise, and they are more likely to 'need' it more.

I’m sorry your daughter has been ill and hope she is doing ok now.

I agree there are people more in need of a pay rise, but it’s not a case of have the consultant there being paid what they currently are or have the consultant there with a pay rise. Consultants are not willing to work in the NHS under current conditions. The tax issue on the pensions is causing real hardship at the moment.

Its not even fairness, it’s practicality. We will lose them if we don’t sort this out, and then we will see what they are worth. More than is the case with most jobs, they cannot be replaced.

There is no reason that nurses and consultants and any other public sector workers cannot have a 10% pay rise, other than the current Tory party being ideologically opposed to having a functioning society.

It is not a question of either this group or the other group.

I'm not a doctor but we nhs staff have to look out for each other so I would support a strike.
Yes consultants make good money compared to other jobs but they have so much responsibility and need years and years of training to reach the position- it absolutely should be well paid and if current pay is causing shortages we need to address that.

As well as working loads of antisocial nights/weekends etc. so really hard to be comparable pay wise with other jobs.

There was a thread about the pensions crisis a while back, most posters thought it was just moaning and doctors should just get on with it despite it being explained some have to pay to go to work at points.

I think the public struggles to have sympathy with high earners sometimes.

I am really heartened to see such support. I worried there would not be an understanding of the issues

The pension issue is outrageous- essentially the pension is calculated by the difference in CPI in March and September I think? So if there is huge inflation , we get an enormous tax bill. It amounts to many months of take home pay. So cannot pay mortgage or bills, am getting a very low yearly pay once HMRC has taken this. Hence the phrase you hear- ‘can’t afford to stay in nhs’, ‘can’t pay to go to work’

Obviously most will leave, by moving across to work privately or will relocate abroad ( consultants are much better paid and better conditions in terms of on call in many other countries)

where does that leave the British public though?

The pension is only an issue when your 'pot' hits the LTA of over £1m - this is not a problem most people have. I do agree that it should be raised, but I don't think it's as urgent as increasing the salaries of lower paid NHS/public sector staff.

Sorting the pension issues would be best. With the cap on lifetime pension contributions remaining stagnant (along with annual contribution cap) more consultants will retire early due to high pension tax burden. Many consultants need to do a tax return each year (even if fully payee on their NHS pay slips) as their pension when audited will be calculated to have exeeded the £40,000 limit for that tax year (an element of carry over from previous years is allowed). They then need to pay back the "tax relief over and above the £40000 limit. This gets complicated as they are on defined benefit pension (though now one that uses career average and not final salary). Their pension scheme some years maybe assessed as having passed the £40000 limit by £10000s so they then have to pay tax on that to HMRC. Bills are frequently 5 figures and some cases have gone to 6 figures (if their CAE have shot up ).