Supporting nhs consultant doctors industrial action

[Lapland123]

I hope this has public support. Consultants have seen the largest pay erosion in public services- now 35 % pay erosion since 2010.

Add the pension debacle, where we are asked for real money now for a theoretical glitch in how pensions are calculated. The ‘real money ‘ bill now can be 6+ months of your take home pay annually. Yes, really.

Vacancies exist in multiple specialties and the day to day job is more and more difficult in the context of vacancies throughout the nhs

I hope we have support for industrial action due to this government’s disgraceful erosion of our pay though we are working harder than ever

Where is all the money for all the pay raises coming from?

well that's the issue isn't it. You can't have a low wage, low growth, high cost & high tax economy.

Sorry but no strike either. You take a job knowing how much you get like anybody else and now complain. All my family work in different areas, during covid still on front row in asdas,lidls, with all these folks not following rules. Yous had some protection my hubby didn't. He gets a heck of a smaller salary also yet works non stop. But he signed up for the job just like you signed up for a job when you decided to train for it. So is the signing up for the money these days rather than also caring for people ?? Much as we have wonderful drs,nurses etc so do our general workers deserve all. So striking I can never agree with especially when your salary as a basic is over double in my family and thats after 10 years and + depending which stores there at. So sorry that's my feelings

No problem with public sector pay increases in line with private sector as long as they match private sector with no final salary pensions.

Happy to be corrected but isn't the level.of student debt much higher in other countries as UK tax payer meets alot of the cost? Indeed consultants in their 50s wouldnt have paid any tution fees and received grants?

Yes it's a job, of course money is a factor. The point is that the goal posts have been changed, it isn't what most people 'signed up for' hence they are leaving in huge numbers. Doctors should be earning more than someone who works in a supermarket, sorry if that sounds harsh but it seems to be one of those things that's recently become controversial to say even though its common sense.

Consultants do earn more than someone on a shop till, as they should.

@LadyJ2023 not to be rude in any way but I think being a consultant has quite a bit more training involved than any Aldi job. The years and years of training and unsociable , long hours. Unless you experience the stress of the job first hand you wouldn’t know . When my husband finally gets home from work tonight he may get called back out to perhaps save somebodies life. I don’t think for one minute he doesn’t care about his patients . No wonder consultants are moving abroad they are treated awfully here , stretched resources and taking on huge workloads, we are looking to move as well .

I would hope that a consultant earns way more than double the salary of someone on a till at Lidl or Asda!

Until I gave up my job because it was too family unfriendly, there were a lot of similarities.

Degree, postgrad, further mandatory training and then many years before vague competence was reached. Working hours were somewhere from 60-100 a week, with frequent all night working, weekends etc. Heck, I took work on my honeymoon (and every holiday). Probably less traumatic but still extremely psychologically draining.

All for about £30k. With no pension. If I'd stayed, I'd have likely earned more eventually, but probably not above £60k. That's an insulting income for the hours and responsibilities.

It's not a race to the bottom, and consultants totally deserve their salary. The consultants I know work amazingly hard, but I don't think their income is disproportionately low for the level of responsibility. A senior consultant is paid about the same as a Crown Court Judge, and that feels about right to me.

‘You take a job knowing what you get like anyone else’. Except take home pay has been cut hugely. So it’s not what was signed up for.
Also, medics should earn more than those working in shops. The stress, workload and responsibilities are not comparable.

The obvious fix in the short-term would be to give NHS employees the flexibility to reduce their pension contributions, together with a lot of robust assistance working out whether they should do that. That could at least let people out of the annual allowance tax trap, although many would instead end up in the 60% marginal tax rate band, which is less bad but still pretty bad.

My trust is already doing this, on the basis that evidence is provided that they have sought independent financial advice and can show they are negatively affected from a tax perspective (which is to avoid the lowest paid staff also wanting to do the same thing as they can't actually afford to live...).

No wonder consultants are moving abroad they are treated awfully here , stretched resources and taking on huge workloads, we are looking to move as well .

tbf lots of professions are looking to move abroad, teachers, IT, engineers, etc.

@safeplanet I agree, the whole country is a mess 😞

It really is, very depressing. I will be encouraging my dc to look elsewhere too.

So when you start working in your 20s, you should be able to predict that 30-40 years later the working conditions, real term pay and pension will have changed so much as to make the job unrecognisable? Where did you buy your crystal ball from, I'd like to get one.

@YankeeDad I do understand, and I'm absolutely behind the lifting of both the LTA and also AA, they are both far too low, I agree. But, this also means increasing allowances for other sectors too, banking for example. Similar salaries and many still in legacy DB schemes with high levels of employer contributions. I'd be very surprised if the public would get behind policies which are designed to encourage senior NHS staff to return to work or increase their hours, but also allows bankers to increase their pension pots at the same time. Plus, award consultants a 35% pay rise which seems to be what OP is suggesting. Change the calculation method for this year, sure, (much like they did the triple lock last year), given the extraordinary levels of inflation, or lift the LTA/AA (which will be good news for many other high earners), but I couldn't get behind consultants striking for a 35% pay rise as well.

No problem with public sector pay increases in line with private sector as long as they match private sector with no final salary pensions

@Velvetear I also agree with this, except it seems most of the public sector want pay rises in excess of private sector. I got 6% this year, and I'm very happy with it, sure it's a net pay reduction, but I understand my employer can only increase mine, and everyone else's salary, by what they can afford to, it's limited by the profitability it makes. If my employer increased all our pay by inflation, they'd be bankrupt and my income would be zero - so it's a balancing act.

I wouldn’t support a consultants strike at all. If nursing is a vocation, theirs is too and drs can more than afford to get by on their current salary.

their training has predominantly been funded by the UK tax payer their threats of moving overseas is thoroughly morally reprehensible.

Drs need to remember that they are public sector employees - their wages are literally paid for by taxpayers, who baulk at giving consultants a pay rise so they can afford to go on three skiing trips a year rather than two, when those funding their wages might be struggling to buy food.

Nursing isn't a vocation and neither is being a doctor; they are jobs.

Medical students do many hours of unpaid placements as part of their degree, the figures for how much it costs to train a doctor have been contested and fact checked many times and been proven to be wildly inflated. It's okay anyway as the NHS poaches many doctors from abroad, including numbers from developing countries at levels above what has been agreed globally to be acceptable because they are happy to accept the pay.

Tax payers can pay for their healthcare at point of use then id they baulk at the costs associated with running a health service. Also doctors pay taxes as well, probably more than most other people do.

I don’t need a pay rise. But I don’t need a massive pension tax bill either, on money I don’t actually have yet. I just want to carry on quietly working in the nhs full time till I retire. But I don’t think I can with these pensions rules that I don’t even really understand. Ugh.

You mean you aren't excited to have an unknown amount added to your tax bill? Or that you'll be taxed again when you retire and are taking the pension on the same money?

‘Vocation’ was a piss take obvs. It’s the justification given to pay nurses and caters so little. If it can be used for them, it ought to be used for doctors too.

Doctors pay more taxes than most UK people because uk taxpayers pay them so much money! I have little sympathy. The majority of people living in wealthy areas around me are medics. It would be unbelievably tone deaf for them to greedily ask for more.

In the list of public sector workers that deserve a pay rise, drs are propping up the bottom. Above possibly MPs?

I got the letter demanding tax last year for breaching the annual allowance. A theoretical increase in my pension based on my increased salary. Why had my salary increase you ask? Because in 2020 I nearly doubled my working hours to cover the intensive care unit. My thanks? A large tax bill.
I’ve cut my hours back down now. And won’t be increasing again if another crisis hits.

Yes I'd support them, primarily to sort the pension issue.

Also, yes they are high earners but for what they actually have to do it's not really that much money compared to some other jobs.

Personally I think doctors are hugely valuable to society and the profession has been devalued in this country for many years. Whether you have sympathy or not is irrelevant really, if the pension issue isn't sorted and if pay isn't addressed the shortages will continue to increase and that will hugely affect care. Let's hope you never see the rates for locums who cover the gaps by the way!

Personally I struggle to support people in the top 3% of earners complaining that they aren't in the top 2%