Supporting nhs consultant doctors industrial action

[Lapland123]

I hope this has public support. Consultants have seen the largest pay erosion in public services- now 35 % pay erosion since 2010.

Add the pension debacle, where we are asked for real money now for a theoretical glitch in how pensions are calculated. The ‘real money ‘ bill now can be 6+ months of your take home pay annually. Yes, really.

Vacancies exist in multiple specialties and the day to day job is more and more difficult in the context of vacancies throughout the nhs

I hope we have support for industrial action due to this government’s disgraceful erosion of our pay though we are working harder than ever

TWO NHS doctors and your house is worth less than your household gross income per annum!?? And yet you are struggling to find around 15k to renovate bathrooms?

Somehow math doesn’t add up. Care to explain?

What confuses me, is the consultants here saying they won’t work overtime, go back to FT to clear backlogs etc because then they will earn too much and get a massive tax liability on it - fair enough. I’d not do that either. But a 35% pay rise won’t then cause the same issue with the pension? Surely higher earnings is higher earnings whether that’s through a pay rise or working more hours.

I managed to find some old post rates for consultants from 1991. Adjusting for inflation (RPI as it is more generous than CPI), almost exactly matches the current pay bands.

Over the long term, inflationary pay rises wouldn't have been as generous as you might imagine.

And dare I be so bold as to say the pension problem would be a nice problem to have for the vast majority of the country.

www.bmj.com/content/300/6721/401

Posts like this are very annoying! sometimes it just boils down to poor money management. Many doctors I know have this problem.

£52k salary roughly gives £3k to take home.

Two people on this salary is £6k take home family money. They bought the house at least 10years ago, so that mortgage is around 100k. At 4% interest, thats £1000 pcm towards mortgage, they have around £5k eat, to pay bills and enjoy life. That’s plenty !

My calculator is based on £52k!! As consultants they are on WAY MORE money.

Exactly!

What the fucking fuck?!
That's a disgrace and I'd have been stoking the striking fires much sooner than this if I was in your shoes.

People need to remember that consultants are consultants because they've spent years honing their area of expertise and the kind you want involved in your care when shit hits the fan! I'm so sorry, I had no idea this was happening to our NHS doctors.

Imagine getting a tax bill of 32k, I think I'd shit my pants.

@TreadLight I think I’d suck it up for a final salary pension, based on a six figure retiring salary, inflation linked, with death benefits and a spousal pension. Alas, I work in the private sector. So 6% and a DC scheme that might give me £20k a year in retirement if I’m lucky it is.

It is not all about money in this life. There are plenty of things much more important than money, and a good working ethics and care and love for your job are in my list

These are not mutually exclusive.

Being a doctor or nurse is not a vocation, it is a job - there is training, exams, indemnity, CPDs, appraisals.
Any old Joe Bloggs with a good work ethic, care and love for the job cannot just walk off the street and take on the role… because it is a job.

Using the term vocation is just a way to keep people in their place and make them feel that they ought to be grateful for poor terms and conditions.

Dh will have to retire at least 8 years earlier than he would have done (according to our calculations) because of the lifetime allowance. But the annual allowance is really starting to bite him now. These last few years we paid the bills out of a private pension plan we both had (sigh..) Now he’s paying it out of his future NHS pension (sorry it’s hard to explain), it’s called “scheme pays”. So he will get less pension when he retires because he’s using it now to pay the tax bills. It’s madness and infuriating.
Mind you he’s so depressed at work that I’m not sure how long he can carry on anyway. He drags himself in every day but I’m getting very worried about his mental health.
His career was never meant to end like this 😢

The pension tax also needs to be sorted out. Waiting lists are rising as doctors cannot afford to help clear the backlog unless they want to pay tens of thousands of imaginary earnings to do so

But where is the incentive to study and train for all those years to become a consultant?

Imagine what cancer survival rates would look like if we had no consultants? And other conditions that require areas of expertise? Transplants, heart disease etc,. These people literally make decisions that save lives. I know nurses save lives and they deserve their pay increase too - but consultants have a shit load more responsibility. There needs to be a competitive incentive to get into the field, I earn more than an NHS consultant but I bloody well shouldn't when I weigh up what I actually do in comparison. And I don't get slapped with a 32k tax bill for the pleasure of making critical care decisions/life saving treatment plans either.

People don't go into professions for love and hugs, they do it primary for money and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Appreciation and gratitude don't pay the mortgage.

Tech pays very high salaries in San Francisco. Should all the tech people here be striking for more pay then!? Ridiculous!

NHS consultants are free to migrate, start their own private practices. They won’t move. Not because they are all so selfless or anything. It’s because, NHS gives them rock solid job security, great pensions and their student loans are less than 1/10th of those in the US.

People on really low pay scales are striking in the UK because inflation has made lives difficult for them. Consultants on £100k salaries striking for more money is pure greed.

@noworklifebalance Fair enough if that is the meaning/ connotation you do give to vocation.
I do love my job and I do say it is my vocation, including the training, long hours and so on.
Obviously, we do need a pay to take home, it is not a hobby.

I definitely support increasing NHS budgets to hire more staff to get the waiting lists down. Paying existing consultants more money won’t solve the problem at all.

THIS !

But where are they going to hire staff to clear the backlog, as it is all consultants’ work?
No-one else can do the surgery, prescribe the chemotherapy, report the complex scans etc

Lets talk about tax bill. As far as how it works in this country, you get taxes on your income. So the tax has something to do with a benefit you recieved (not yet realised, but it’s in your pot). And you now have a problem paying your fair share of taxes? I do understand there was a miscalculation. BUT, it’s still what you owe! I’m sure they are NOT asking you to pay it in one go. So please don’t make it look like you got a tax bill for nothing! Very misleading.

You’d also have to be prepared to pay a random tax bill each year - could you pay £40 000+ at relatively short notice on money haven’t actually been given?

It’s not ‘imaginary earnings’ though is it? It’s accumulating in your pension. I fully appreciate it’s not accumulating in your bank account to pay the bills which would be more useful right now, but it is accumulating to pay a very comfortable retirement.

High earners pay a lot of tax in this country, it’s a bit shit, agreed. I have more empathy though for those who find themselves getting a pay rise or bonus that takes the over the £50k cut off for child benefit and then get big (for them) tax bill though. I’ll get a pretty hefty tax bill from my annual bonus, like I do most years, but well, it comes with earning an above average salary for which I’m grateful.

Already overworked consultants cannot safely do more surgeries suddenly for more ‘money!
There are plenty of committed overseas medical professionals ready to work for the NHS, increase medical seats in unis.

Its not a one day solution, things take time. BUT, care to explain how paying more money will suddenly bring stress down and create more time?

@Jazz12 I haven't mentioned receiving a tax bill anywhere in my post, another poster received a tax bill.

They are asking them to pay the £32k in one go, via self assessment tax return.

It’s all very well having say £10k in your pocket and being asked to pay £4k in tax. Because you have £10k to pay this from. Being asked to pay £32k from money you don’t yet have - how is that fair or reasonable?

Tax is always on money /benefit already paid. Please don’t mislead.

I spend money wisely, save and invest. Yes I can cough up £40k right now.

it you owe taxman money, you owe them money. I still don’t understand what the problem is!

If you don’t understand by now, it’s probably best to just let this conversation go.