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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be at wits end with DS?

125 replies

PixieAndProsecco · 30/01/2023 22:09

This isn't an aibu but I've nowhere else to turn to.

My DS is 12, turning 13 this summer, and I am at my wits end. He is about 5ft3 and built - so not a small child - and this is relevant.

For as long as I can remember he will blow up over the smallest things. By blow up I mean shout, scream, throw things, refuse to do things and so on.
The older he's become the worse it has become - he can become verbally hurtful and aggressive, often 'squaring up' to adults but never getting physical.

He has refused to attend school because his hair won't sit the way he wants and there is nothing I can do. He is too big for me to move, I cannot drag him out the house. If he refuses then he refuses.

His attitude and behaviour to being asked to do things or when he is spoken to about how he speaks to others is disgusting. He shrugs, walks away, rolls his eyes, mimics etc and then eventually storms off.
He lies constantly to family and friends, sneaks food, takes care of nothing (constantly leaving platea and rubbish in his room, not putting clothes away, everything left at his bum).
He can be vile to his grandparents too.

At the weekend he threatened to leave the house because he was told he couldn't go out. I had to move away from the door and he barged out, no phone or jacket, and off he went. He eventually went to my parents house but my heart was in my mouth trying to track him down.

He's moved school recently (less than a month) and I have had 1 email, 1 phone call and a visit all because of his behaviour. He is a bright boy but this is being overlooked constantly.

We take his phone from him, we stop him going out with friends, we "ground" him essentially as a result of his actions and there is no change to his behaviour.

I feel like I'm constantly walking on egg shells. Just now he has tripped the fuse because he "needs" to straighten his hair before bed and then in the morning. His straighteners have stopped working as a result and he's already started the "I'm not going to school" tomorrow nonsense. I got a mouthful of abuse when I told him you don't need to do your hair before bed and in the morning.

We are all so done. The slightest thing and he kicks off ridiculously. We have consequences and they don't work. I am verbally abused every single day. I am scared he will snap one day and physically assault myself or his step-dad. I am scared he will run away from home.

I know that there has been some trauma, especially regarding his dad (not physical or sexual) and this may be resulting in some his behaviour. However this behaviour has also existed long before these issues.

We've told school but he isn't engaging with them.
We've approached the GP and they've just said it's not an issue.
At his choice he has no contact with his own dad.

I don't know what to do anymore. I'm convinced there is more to it than just being a horrible person but there is nowhere to go, no one to help.

I already know that tomorrow morning it's going to be awful and I can't face it.

OP posts:
SelinaKant · 30/01/2023 23:58

Bellsbeachwaves · 30/01/2023 23:06

He sounds angry. But then I'd be angry too if my dad was as you describe his dad. You need to open up communication about his anger that no amount of art classes and 'youre doing really well' will compensate for. I think. I mean I dunno. Consider therapy. For you. Not him. You.

I agree with this.
Also, your ds is at that age where boys will challenge their biological fathers for dominance. His biological father is not only not in the household, but is a totally weak, useless failure of a father. He should be beating the door down for a relationship with his son but he isn't. Imagine how your ds must feel with a useless father like that?

Failing that, he needs a man to be a mentor and a friend. Not your partner or a relative. Someone he finds for himself - not anyone who is "found" for him. A boxing coach, for example. Boxing would channel his aggression and help him deal with it and give him discipline and immense self-control. Someone who won't take his cheeky bullshit and aggression, but will mentor and train him out of it. I'm sorry but I don't think you, as his mother, can sort this out yourself. He is going to need to find an older male, or a group of peers to attach to in his transition to adulthood, and he definitely will find that from somewhere.

Thinking of what you said about his hair and the straighteners - It's so sad, honestly! He is so angry and shredded with himself. I hope you all find a way through. I have worked with boys who were like that (and much worse) who turned out to be good men. My brother was also one of them.

Magnoliamarigold · 31/01/2023 00:00

"4. That is the million dollar question"

Psychologist here: from what you say it sounds like issues with sense of self relating to biological dad.
What's the hair straightening thing about? Why is it important? Who has straight hair that he wants to be like?
Anger comes from a feeling of injustice. What injustice does he feel? who is out to get him?

I also recommend the explosive child book.

Don't contradict him or attempt to use logic. The thing that's bothering him probably sounds stupid to say out loud and that's what makes it (and everything else) even worse.

As a PP says, meet him at his mental level.

He's hurting inside, you must leave all your emotions at the door and approach this with calmness, clarity and confidence.

Good luck OP.

PixieAndProsecco · 31/01/2023 01:03

We try not to get emotional and I repeat the "please don't talk to me like that/I'm not arguing/please don't speak to other People like that" line constantly.
I feel emotional after the fact.

When he tried to get out the door, before succeeding, I just sat in front of it and repeated the "I cannot let you leave right now" line over and over. No shouting, crying etc.

I tend to get emotional after the fact, which is why I'm running on less than 5 hours sleep a night.

The hair thing is because he sees other people do it (it's not straight he curls it). I encourage him to express himself as he wishes - wanted an ear piercing sp we got one; sometimes paints his nails; curls his hair; into skin care; buying him the clothes he likes etc.
I don't force any of my opinions on him but he certainly forms his from social media, "popular" people at school, celebrities etc.

I don't know what injustice he feels as though there is. I've asked, multiple times across the various years. He doesn't just act this way with me/us - his grandparents suffer the brunt too. He can also be incredibly cruel to his peers.

My biggest fear is him driving/pushing everyone away.

OP posts:
Eyerollcentral · 31/01/2023 01:11

Op the more you write the more it does seem like he gets whatever he wants.

asleeponthetable · 31/01/2023 01:23

Could you afford an ASD/PDA/ADHD assessment? If not a psychiatrist or psychologist to do a mental Heath assessment but it does sound like PDA and any mental health needs would be secondary. CAMHS are a mess.

nolongersurprised · 31/01/2023 01:57

Magnoliamarigold · 31/01/2023 00:00

"4. That is the million dollar question"

Psychologist here: from what you say it sounds like issues with sense of self relating to biological dad.
What's the hair straightening thing about? Why is it important? Who has straight hair that he wants to be like?
Anger comes from a feeling of injustice. What injustice does he feel? who is out to get him?

I also recommend the explosive child book.

Don't contradict him or attempt to use logic. The thing that's bothering him probably sounds stupid to say out loud and that's what makes it (and everything else) even worse.

As a PP says, meet him at his mental level.

He's hurting inside, you must leave all your emotions at the door and approach this with calmness, clarity and confidence.

Good luck OP.

We have had a rough time with our second daughter although (fingers crossed) things seem to be improving now. She’s 14 now.

I saw a psychologist with her (although her engagement was minimal) and his impression was that my daughter was also struggling with her sense of self. Neither he nor I had any concerns that she may be neurodiverse.

There were a few issues all at once:

  1. appearance. She was (is) a very attractive girl, parental bias notwithstanding, and she developed acne through puberty.
  2. sexuality. She’s same sex attracted. She knows it’s a non issue for us, but she feels a minority amongst her friends. She goes to a nominally religious private school, but there are some students from very conservative backgrounds.
  3. academics. She’s an intelligent girl but her first term last year (in Australia) she had a slower start and wasn’t invited to do the external maths and science completions she previously took for granted.
  4. sport. She was a competitive swimmer but her swimming friends were gradually dropping out and of course the training expectations at that age were high. The one friend left was moved up into a higher group and my daughter wasn’t.

it doesn’t sound like that much, but put together she was awful. Moody, non communicative, school avoidant, kicking/breaking doors. She wouldn’t talk to us, eat with us and only communicated by shouting. Her siblings were scared of her.

Things are easing a bit now. We saw a dermatologist and her skin is now clear, she went back to top grades shortly afterwards. She’s taken up boxing and we’ve agreed that she’ll do 1-2 classes/week and have paid for a PT session once/week. There was one week she made excuses not to do a single class and I made her pay me back the week’s gym fee. She’s chosen to drop the demands of competitive swimming but will swim with the squad some mornings to keep up her fitness for open water swimming. She also has a part time job.

When things first became unbearably awful I worried about the potential big issues, like bullying, depression, abuse etc, whereas it seems to have been a whole heap of smaller issues, all at once.

greenspaces4peace · 31/01/2023 02:06

i can see how a 12-13 yr old following trends like this would make for an unhappy child. all it does is reinforce how he needs to "change" himself or the world. impossible goals and i could see how this would lead to anger and self loathing. no clue how you turn back some of the narrative he's been exposed to.
he's probably questioning his sexuality, confused and angry.

PixieAndProsecco · 31/01/2023 07:30

Eyerollcentral · 31/01/2023 01:11

Op the more you write the more it does seem like he gets whatever he wants.

I would be curious to know how you've come go that conclusion.

OP posts:
PixieAndProsecco · 31/01/2023 07:31

greenspaces4peace · 31/01/2023 02:06

i can see how a 12-13 yr old following trends like this would make for an unhappy child. all it does is reinforce how he needs to "change" himself or the world. impossible goals and i could see how this would lead to anger and self loathing. no clue how you turn back some of the narrative he's been exposed to.
he's probably questioning his sexuality, confused and angry.

If it had just been a recent issue I would 100% blame it in this. However this happened way before any knowledge of social media.
I don't think trends etc have helped but they certainly aren't the contributing factor.

OP posts:
PixieAndProsecco · 31/01/2023 07:33

asleeponthetable · 31/01/2023 01:23

Could you afford an ASD/PDA/ADHD assessment? If not a psychiatrist or psychologist to do a mental Heath assessment but it does sound like PDA and any mental health needs would be secondary. CAMHS are a mess.

It looks like we're going to have to go this route. However I'm not having much luck finding private psychiatrists/psychologist who are capable of giving a formal diagnosis for children/teens.

OP posts:
PixieAndProsecco · 31/01/2023 07:34

nolongersurprised · 31/01/2023 01:57

We have had a rough time with our second daughter although (fingers crossed) things seem to be improving now. She’s 14 now.

I saw a psychologist with her (although her engagement was minimal) and his impression was that my daughter was also struggling with her sense of self. Neither he nor I had any concerns that she may be neurodiverse.

There were a few issues all at once:

  1. appearance. She was (is) a very attractive girl, parental bias notwithstanding, and she developed acne through puberty.
  2. sexuality. She’s same sex attracted. She knows it’s a non issue for us, but she feels a minority amongst her friends. She goes to a nominally religious private school, but there are some students from very conservative backgrounds.
  3. academics. She’s an intelligent girl but her first term last year (in Australia) she had a slower start and wasn’t invited to do the external maths and science completions she previously took for granted.
  4. sport. She was a competitive swimmer but her swimming friends were gradually dropping out and of course the training expectations at that age were high. The one friend left was moved up into a higher group and my daughter wasn’t.

it doesn’t sound like that much, but put together she was awful. Moody, non communicative, school avoidant, kicking/breaking doors. She wouldn’t talk to us, eat with us and only communicated by shouting. Her siblings were scared of her.

Things are easing a bit now. We saw a dermatologist and her skin is now clear, she went back to top grades shortly afterwards. She’s taken up boxing and we’ve agreed that she’ll do 1-2 classes/week and have paid for a PT session once/week. There was one week she made excuses not to do a single class and I made her pay me back the week’s gym fee. She’s chosen to drop the demands of competitive swimming but will swim with the squad some mornings to keep up her fitness for open water swimming. She also has a part time job.

When things first became unbearably awful I worried about the potential big issues, like bullying, depression, abuse etc, whereas it seems to have been a whole heap of smaller issues, all at once.

Thank you for sharing your story.
I'm glad things are on the way up for your daughter and your family.

I'm hoping we see some improvements soon. Or find someone who can help us.

OP posts:
Dacadactyl · 31/01/2023 07:37

@PixieAndProsecco I wonder how you parented when he was young? I have always been a big believer in telling my kids "I am your parent and as such I know what is best for you. If you knew what was best, you'd be parenting yourself. You don't have options in this situation (whatever it is) and you are going to tow the line." I have done this since they were about 6.

I honestly think it makes them feel secure when they are floundering. I don't think it's too late to implement some form of the above strategy, but I think you may need some professional help to do it because you need to unpick the problems his dad has left behind.

WomanFromTheNorth · 31/01/2023 07:53

Could you ask your GP for a referral for an ADHD assessment? Or could you pay for a private assessment? Children with Adhd often have very poor impulse control, lose their temper quickly etc. And the fact that it's been going on for so long points to some kind of neurodivergence.

WomanFromTheNorth · 31/01/2023 07:54

If it is ADHD, meds can help with all of this.

PixieAndProsecco · 31/01/2023 07:55

Dacadactyl · 31/01/2023 07:37

@PixieAndProsecco I wonder how you parented when he was young? I have always been a big believer in telling my kids "I am your parent and as such I know what is best for you. If you knew what was best, you'd be parenting yourself. You don't have options in this situation (whatever it is) and you are going to tow the line." I have done this since they were about 6.

I honestly think it makes them feel secure when they are floundering. I don't think it's too late to implement some form of the above strategy, but I think you may need some professional help to do it because you need to unpick the problems his dad has left behind.

There have been consistent boundaries since he was little, on my side at least.
Consistent approaches to what is considered appropriate and inappropriate.

This morning we've had a similar conversation - he's refusing school again because of his hair (I realise that sounds ridiculous but at 5ft2/3 and a solid built I can't physically get him washed, dressed or there).
I've repeatedly said something along the following lines "I am your parent, I know what is best for you and I am telling you that you need to go to school". He has repeatedly told me "no", "fuck off" etc or has just ignored me.
I need to leave in 35 minutes, at the latest, and he is still in bed.

OP posts:
WomanFromTheNorth · 31/01/2023 07:56

PixieAndProsecco · 31/01/2023 07:33

It looks like we're going to have to go this route. However I'm not having much luck finding private psychiatrists/psychologist who are capable of giving a formal diagnosis for children/teens.

Whereabouts in the UK are you?

PixieAndProsecco · 31/01/2023 07:57

WomanFromTheNorth · 31/01/2023 07:56

Whereabouts in the UK are you?

Central Scotland, I found two in Glasgow and one isn't taking new patients.

OP posts:
sunlovingcriminal · 31/01/2023 07:58

@PixieAndProsecco.

I don't have any experience of this, but I just wanted to say it sounds like you're really giving everything to this matter, and I wanted to send you a hug, and a "hang on in there", and some recognition that you must be bloody exhausted.

I hope you can get some you time in all of this, as you must feel like you're running in empty Flowers

WomanFromTheNorth · 31/01/2023 08:01

www.adhdfoundation.org.uk/neurodiversity-clinic/

Dacadactyl · 31/01/2023 08:03

PixieAndProsecco · 31/01/2023 07:55

There have been consistent boundaries since he was little, on my side at least.
Consistent approaches to what is considered appropriate and inappropriate.

This morning we've had a similar conversation - he's refusing school again because of his hair (I realise that sounds ridiculous but at 5ft2/3 and a solid built I can't physically get him washed, dressed or there).
I've repeatedly said something along the following lines "I am your parent, I know what is best for you and I am telling you that you need to go to school". He has repeatedly told me "no", "fuck off" etc or has just ignored me.
I need to leave in 35 minutes, at the latest, and he is still in bed.

I hope you get it sorted out. I feel for you.

I'd be taking the fuse out of the TV and any electronics before I left.

WomanFromTheNorth · 31/01/2023 08:06

PixieAndProsecco · 31/01/2023 07:57

Central Scotland, I found two in Glasgow and one isn't taking new patients.

You could maybe travel for the initial assessment and then get online appointments for reviews / meds etc.

You could do an online screening test first to see if it looks like that he has adhd / asd and then take it from there.

As the mother of a "difficult" son, I feel your pain. But you mustn't blame yourself although it's hard not to, I know. If he's always been this way then it is highly likely down to him being neurodivergent.

itsgettingweird · 31/01/2023 08:08

Sounds daft but have you tried empathising with him?

Clearly he feels he needs to straighten his hair before and after bed. Confidence issues?

Understand why he feels like this and offer to help him so those things he needs to do but tell him in order to help him more he also has to keep engaging with people trying to help him.

His behaviour obviously isn't acceptable and is extreme but all he hears is "I don't care how you feel and why you need to do x y and z - you're not doing it". And his response is anger and to push you away more.

WomanFromTheNorth · 31/01/2023 08:10

My ds didn't get a diagnosis until he was 15 but I wish we'd done it sooner. I didn't want him to be labelled - but the thing is they are labelled anyway, as the "disruptive" one etc.

Morph22010 · 31/01/2023 08:16

mynamesnotMa · 30/01/2023 22:26

Has he always been like this
Has it got worse since the change
Counselling only works if they want it
Why did camhs not see you?
What do you think is going on for him?

if it’s anything like where I live the bar to see cahms is ridicously high, child has to have made an active suicide attempt, they wouldn’t see for something at this level

Morph22010 · 31/01/2023 08:21

PixieAndProsecco · 30/01/2023 22:40

He enjoys lots and we've tried to get him to engage, even without conditions, to no avail.

Enjoys art and got him enrolled at a great art programme. He refused to go in, after it was paid for.
Enjoys music and attended music tuition then wanted to quit as he needed to practise at home. He had additional lessons for another instrument in school but didn't want to take this up at home.
Enjoys photography and so we bought books, a good camera and looked at courses but he refused and now doesnt touch it.
Enjoys musical theatre but won't go to a class.
Enjoys horseriding but only wanted to go to private lessons at a particular stable - something we couldn't afford, especially with all the dropping out of other activities.

With the music why does he need to practise at home? My son does music lessons (he has asd) and rarely practises at home, I’m not really bothered, he enjoys the lessons, he’s done a few exams, may have taken him longer than if he put the effort in to practise but I’m not really bothered if he does exams or not he just enjoys the lessons

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