Don’t want to be around bereaved MIL anymore

[turquoisepenguin]

This is probably going to make me sound like the worst person in the world but here goes.

FIL died eighteen months ago, it was quite sudden and he was relatively young (65).

MIL is now very depressed. I do feel very sorry for her because FIL was basically her whole world. She doesn’t have any other family, doesn’t have many friends, doesn’t drive, and is retired. She used to spend most of her time with FIL. So it is really sad.

She recently came to stay. This was actually my suggestion as I know she is bored and lonely and I thought it would cheer her up. Unfortunately it was a disaster. She was in a terrible mood with DH because he asked her to get the train (he used to pick her up and drive to ours but it’s a six hour round trip). So she barely spoke to him or me for the first 24 hours. She didn’t want to go out anywhere so she sat and watched daytime TV for six hours (this is not an exaggeration). She cried a lot of the time and turned most conversations round to FIL.

She is clearly depressed but won’t go to the doctor or have counselling. She is in a terrible place but she won’t accept any help and is very rude to DH. She refused to say goodbye to him, again because she was unhappy about having to get the train. At the end we were both completely exhausted and fed up and the kids were a bit confused by the whole thing.

I had suggested to DH that we should invite her to stay again in March but I’ve just said I think we should abandon that idea because I don’t think I can face it again. However, I also feel like a terrible person because she is obviously very sad. I don’t know what the answer is really. But I have my own issues with work, family illness, kids etc and I just don’t think I can face this on top.

In the same way as you think the loss of a husband trumps the loss of a parent because that's your experience. Not everyone deals with grief the same way you do. Just because you identify with way the OP's MiL is dealing with her grief doesn't mean it's the only way to deal with grief. And it doesn't mean you get to tell the OP how she should treat her MiL without any understanding of her position and that of her family.

I know lots of people who have lost dearly beloved spouses and even children. They do manage to get on with life and they certainly don't take it out on everyone around them. That doesn't mean they don't grieve deeply or feel devastating loss. The two things are different.

Not talking about me, or anyone else on the thread - talking about the OP’s MIL, who as far as we know hasn’t experienced the death of a child, so it’s a fair assumption, judging by what the OP has said so far, that losing her partner is the worst experience of her life. I’m not getting into the hierarchy of which grief is worse because it’s ridiculous to suggest that one form of grief is worse than another - grief is different for everyone depending on who they have lost.

No. What I said was that we can reasonably expect to experience the death of a parent in our lifetime - that’s perceived as the natural order of things. Not saying any form of grief is worse than another, just different. And as for your comment about me ‘getting to tell the OP how she should treat her MIL’, as far as I am aware, this is a public forum and I’m just as entitled to contribute as anyone else. And just because you don’t agree with me, doesn’t change that.

Not judging anything. We all expect to experience the death of a parent at some stage in our lives - it’s the natural order of things, but it’s completely different to the experience of losing your life partner. Not saying worse, just different, so of course he will deal with losing his father differently than his mother will, because she lost her life partner, and consequently her way of life, which she now has to rebuild. He still has his life partner and the loss of his father, whilst sad for him, won’t impact him in the same way as it will his mother.

Well, statistically, it's a better than 50/50 chance that a woman will lose her partner at some point in life, too.

Best to brace for it and make sure one has a life outside of coupledom to fall back on.

A close friend lost her husband at age 60 to a fast-moving unexpected disease. He was sick for about a year, it was grim.

She wasted no time clearing out this things, revamping the house to suit herself, tallying up her assets and deciding to retire. Within seven months she was involved with one of the tradesmen who worked on her home renovations. Four years later they still are together, she is an active volunteer in her community, basically enjoying life.

This. Grief can be a total kick in the guts. Her whole world has crumbled. I like the idea of a bereavement group as PP suggested. I was going to suggest hobbies or something as a way to make friends but she doesn't seem ready for that yet. So maybe some activities like walks to get her out into nature? Is there anything she used to enjoy? She probably does need counselling and GP too

@ZeldaWillTellYourFortune Seven months!!

I have already been married to my husband for 31 years, I can't imagine getting together with someone so soon after his death. I took longer to get together with DH after I split up with my previous boyfriend.

I have never said I know the grief other people have experienced. I’ve said I’ve got some empathy with the op’s MIL because I lost my own husband suddenly and I know how traumatic it can be. Why are you so aggressive ?

Actually, in many of your close to 50 posts on this thread you have judged and ranked the OP's husband's loss. You have said losing a parent is "expected". I am sorry for you loss. Many of us have experienced a shocking loss (as has this son) and not behaved like this woman on an extended visit. She has refused all offers of help, and will remain in this state and treating others like shit until she gets some help and has another way of looking at life. Should everyone just suffer for the rest of her natural life because she refuses all variety of grief counselling, etc? It may be a very long life..

So you don't think any kind of grief trumps any other, and yet you said, "And if you think the loss of a parent is in any way comparable to the loss of your life partner, you’re in for a massive shock if it happens to you." Sounded like you were saying the loss of a life partner trumps the loss of a parent.

They were married for 22 years. But she is not the type to look backwards.

She and her new man (who is a widower, approx age 62) both cherish the memory of their previous spouses but "life is for the living." They do a lot of volunteerism together, building play sets for children in poverty and creating pollinator gardens in their community spaces. Neither is big on travel but they do go for brief breaks to historic places/stately homes.

I think it's nice that they got together and are leading rich and fulfilling lives, and have the comfort of someone else's arms, despite widowhood.

@pattihews That story about your mum's swimming is beautiful. 💐

It sounds like a difficult combination of a hard form of grief, a co-dependent lifestyle and an awkward personality who alienates people even in better times.

You can't help people who don't want to be helped.

The problem with her getting stuck at a raw and impotent form of grief for a prolonged period at this stage of life is that it's only going to get harder to adapt with age. If she can't/ won't adapt her lifestyle at 65 (ish), it'll be harder at 70, 75. She's reasonably got another 20-30 years ahead of her.

DM was widowed in her early 50s. I was a child. She had to get herself into gear every morning to get me to school. She had a great network of friends who pulled her along. In time she joined singles groups. She did adult education classes. It was tough, sometimes she did bail, but there was some purpose pulling her through each day until life got easier. She could get herself around which helped. She did struggle with some practical things that had always been a "man's job". Sometimes it was a battle to make herself do things like buy school uniform in a timely manner. There was my grief to consider too, plus in 12 months we'd gone from a family of 4 to a household of 2 due to older sibling moving on. It was a major upheaval to adapt to.

My life lesson, learned before leaving junior school was always to be able to fend for yourself because you never know when the police will come knocking with bad news. Life can be short, so live it well while you can.

OP's DH has his own grief and his own family responsibilities, and it is sensible to draw up sustainable boundaries like the travel by train. There are some people who will suck everything out of you if you let them, and that enables them to carry on unchanged while their small support network is exhausted. While the grief is worthy of sympathy and consideration, the real problem here is a negative, demanding, dependent personality.

No, what I said was that we can expect to experience the loss of a parent at some stage in our lives, and that her son will experience the loss of his father in a different way to his mother, because she has lost her life partner. And if you’ve actually read any of my ‘close to 50 posts’ you will have seen that, I and several other contributors also pointed out to the OP that at 18 months in her MIL’s behaviour seems to suggest that she has realised the full implications of what has happened and is trying to come to terms and accept it. The second year after this kind of loss is worse than the first for a lot of people, as this is often when the realisation kicks in that the situation is permanent and that they have no choice but to get on and accept it. It’s hard. Just because MIL is difficult at the moment, doesn’t mean she will continue to be so. She just needs time to accept her loss.

At no point did I say the loss of a life partner trumps the loss of a parent, I said it is in no way comparable and I stand by that. Having experienced both, they’re totally different. The OP’s husband won’t experience the loss of his father in the same way as his mother, because the relationships are different. He is grieving and has the support of his wife and family. His life will not change significantly. His mother is grieving and lives alone. She has lost her life partner and her way of life, and will have to rebuild that. So the impact on her is significantly different to that of her son.

I agree with you @Lovelysausagedogscrumpy

You can reasonably expect to outlive a parent who is 20-40 (or more) years older than you. As an adult, your probably have a partner and even children to comfort you in your loss. in the same way a spouse won't, any is often living alone. And you'd expect your spouse of a similar age to live beyond their 60s.

That doesn't mean it's easier or harder all the time, for every person. We've heard stories here from widow/ers who moved on quickly to new relationships. There are adults who never get over the loss of a beloved parent.

But we can understand how losing your partner can sting differently. The person you'd want to confide in when you're experiencing traumatic loss is the same person who died.

Your mum must've had you late if you were young and she was in her 60s?
At least you aren't shallow now.

I have never got over my dad. I lost him at 19. For years I’ve been tormented by all the things he’s missed out on, me passing my driving test, my son, my sons milestones and even crying my eyes out that I’ve had to hire a decorator for my home when in an ideal world my dad would’ve helped me. I went through grief alone with a mum that was all me me me, Father’s Day rips my heart out every year. The first Father’s Day was trumped by my mother mentioning how “at least I didn’t watch him die” as though I was meant to be lucky.
OP I hope your poor husband sets some boundaries in place because grieving is awful, but grieving alone is so much worse.

Honestly just let it ride. But eventually if I was her child I'd end up saying like, why are you treating me like this when you've clearly learned that life is short and precious.

Imagine one of your children who you have brought up telling you to get on a train when they have always picked you up.

I'm guessing there are reasons why the very long (six hour!) pickup wasn't possible this time, and unless there is some back story about health problems, a woman in her early 60s or whatever she is should be able to get the train. She's obviously depressed and suffering, but there is only so much you can do if someone refuses to help themselves and is rude to those who try to help them.

Not saying the actual words does not mean the inference is not there. You are comparing different levels of grief and implying one is worse than the other. And you are doing it over and over again and completely talking from your own experience as if this is the only way to be. It's ridiculous to suggest that society's or your particular perception of grief would change how you felt when someone died. The natural order of things does not change that for some people the loss of their parent could be so much worse. They may be completely emotionally and socially reliant on that parent in the same way you seem to have been with your late husband and the MiL in this case was. The MiL seems to be using her grief not so much as a way of adjusting to her new circumstances but as a stick to beat those around her.

Well of course you can do what you want, I can't stop you (clearly as you are like a dog with a bone about it), but it doesn't mean it's right or fair.

I hope the many people disagreeing with you will ensure that the OP disregards your obsession with your view being the only one and that the OP should feel shamed into agreeing with you.

I'm so sorry 2023. It must be terrible to not have anyone to share that grief with. You're absolutely right that grieving alone is so much worse. Especially when someone else's grief is used as a weapon to attack you.

Have you thought of seeing a counsellor who specialises in working with grief or joining a bereavement group. It doesn't matter that his death was a while ago, it deserves to be acknowledged and recognised and might help to mitigate some of the pain.

I wish you'd had your dad there for all those milestones. If I'd been your mum I would have wanted to remember your dad in these moments and acknowledge your grief too. Sending love .

You are not awful at all that sounds horrendous and it would be unfair to put yourself and your children through that again.
I would cancel March and continue contact, encouraging her accessing support etc. can you get your children to draw nice pictures or postcards and send through the post? We did this during lockdown and I know our family loved it.
Maybe in time the stays with you can continue but sounds like even she didn't enjoy it so I wouldn't encourage it anytime soon.

I'm always amazed by these threads where the OP is constantly berated for not being EVEN MORE empathetic towards [insert difficult person], by posters who show no empathy whatsoever towards the OP and her immediate family.

They have a young family, including kids, and they are trying to run a household during stressful times (complete with a cost of living crisis and a looming recession), with limited annual leave. They can't keep giving up weekends and annual leave to MIL's unhappiness, hard though her situation is. Nobody's expecting her to "be over it," just to try and do something to get herself out of this rut.