Don’t want to be around bereaved MIL anymore

[turquoisepenguin]

This is probably going to make me sound like the worst person in the world but here goes.

FIL died eighteen months ago, it was quite sudden and he was relatively young (65).

MIL is now very depressed. I do feel very sorry for her because FIL was basically her whole world. She doesn’t have any other family, doesn’t have many friends, doesn’t drive, and is retired. She used to spend most of her time with FIL. So it is really sad.

She recently came to stay. This was actually my suggestion as I know she is bored and lonely and I thought it would cheer her up. Unfortunately it was a disaster. She was in a terrible mood with DH because he asked her to get the train (he used to pick her up and drive to ours but it’s a six hour round trip). So she barely spoke to him or me for the first 24 hours. She didn’t want to go out anywhere so she sat and watched daytime TV for six hours (this is not an exaggeration). She cried a lot of the time and turned most conversations round to FIL.

She is clearly depressed but won’t go to the doctor or have counselling. She is in a terrible place but she won’t accept any help and is very rude to DH. She refused to say goodbye to him, again because she was unhappy about having to get the train. At the end we were both completely exhausted and fed up and the kids were a bit confused by the whole thing.

I had suggested to DH that we should invite her to stay again in March but I’ve just said I think we should abandon that idea because I don’t think I can face it again. However, I also feel like a terrible person because she is obviously very sad. I don’t know what the answer is really. But I have my own issues with work, family illness, kids etc and I just don’t think I can face this on top.

There is a middle ground. OP and her husband can help MIL develop enough confidence to take the train. Address what the issues are.

I agree completely, OutForBreakfast; it's exactly what I'd do myself (and have), only from OP's description it appears the MIL resists even this

As a PP just reminded us, in a point which has been largely glossed over, MIL's described ease in cutting people out of her life may well suggest that this is a lady for whom "everything has to be on her terms or nothing" - and that can be unhelpful for everyone, including MIL herself

@CarolineHelston I know my difficult bereavement has knocked my confidence and made me feel less capable of tackling new things. To be honest doing every day things is hard enough.

Can totally see both sides but it's honestly ridiculous to say that it's the same for the MIL. Op's DH has a wife and children who live with him.

MIL now lives alone and has lost her partner who she lived with every single day.

And her son and his partner are fed up and trying to avoid her (caused by her own actions, sure, but it's still hurtful)

@Lovelysausagedogscrumpy

Thank you x unmumsnetty hug to you.

I know there is a horizon. There's just a big black wall obscuring it at the moment x

1) It reminds her that she never had to do it when her husband was alive
2)It's less time spent with someone - she travels alone
3)It's something she's got to organise and do when perhaps she doesn't feel she can face it
4)She might have been 'helpless' in her marriage and now she can't be

Very well explained. If I was the DH and this was my mother, I'd just do it, personally.

@Puzzledandpissedoff Actually sounds like quite a lot of people on MN.

I get that she resists, she is anxious. But you do obvious things like doing the train journey with her the first time to identify any points she struggles with.. Is it changes? Getting her luggage on? Or is it just doing something new?

Yes, it’s exactly that. She is not willing to try any form of support, either online or face to face, and she doesn’t want counselling or anti depressants. She also doesn’t want to start any new hobbies/projects etc. She only wants to cry, talk about FIL and watch TV, really.

I know I’ve been criticised earlier in the thread for mixing up grief and depression but to me it does seem pretty clear that this has gone past “normal” grief and is now depression.

Personally I would do it for a bit but make it clear it is not for ever and work towards her in the future travelling alone.

'She is not willing to try any form of support, either online or face to face, and she doesn’t want counselling or anti depressants. She also doesn’t want to start any new hobbies/projects etc. She only wants to cry, talk about FIL and watch TV, really.'

So. What.

Talking about fil and watching TV sounds ok to me.

Nope. None of it. Doesn’t matter whether you were reliant on your partner or fully independent within the relationship. What’s ‘infantile’ is your suggestion that losing a life partner will feel better or worse depending on how reliant you were on them. It’s not only heartless to suggest that this may be at the heart of MILs issues but it’s irrelevant and has nothing to do with genuine grief. At 18 months in I would expect MIL to be self centred. She’s lost her life partner and the grief is all consuming - it’s well known that the second year after this kind of loss can be much worse than the first, as it can take this long for the full realisation of your situation to kick in and for you to even start to accept things as they are. No one - and I mean no-one on this thread has even considered this. You are approaching the loss of a life partner as a purely practical thing and I hope to god that you never find out that it’s not.

I think grief is so individual
If my dad had died first, my mum would have fallen apart. She didn't do any washing, cleaning, cooking, know how to put fuel in the car and definitely wouldn't have got a train alone
As it is, my mum died in summer. My dad is in a new relationship now and had just come back from 10 days away (5hr drive there and same coming back) and will happily cook/clean, do everything by himself
I'm not particularly happy he's in a serious relationship 6 months after my mums death (they were together 50 years) but I recognise it's helping him with his grief so..

Grief and depression are not the same thing. And at 18 months it’s perfectly acceptable for her to still be grieving. I refused anti depressants after my husband died because they would only have delayed the grieving process. What would be the point of them now - all they would do is delay realisation and acceptance of her situation, which usually happens in the second year. It’s not that she’s not willing to try any form of support, she’s just not ready. Forcing the issue will make things worse, and counselling will only help if she’s ready engage with it fully and to face and work through issues that may be painful. From what you’ve said previously it doesn’t sound as though she’s anywhere near ready for this. And I would have thought her GP is the best person to distinguish between grief and depression.

You feel how yiu feel. I understand itbis tiring being around her. Walking on eggshells not knowing what to sa etc. I can tell you frim experience that grief can be debilitating. My partner of 2 years died suddenly in tragic circumstances 14 months ago and I am struggling. We didn't live together,I drive I work in a time consuming job,have friends but do not want to do anything. Work is the only constant. I am telling you this because your mother in law's grief is probably ten fold. It is something you hopefully learn to.live alongside rather than something to get over.ot can feel like perpetual torture. Be patient.

@Lovelysausagedogscrumpy you are talking about how it affected you. My DM didn't react in the same way as you when my DF died. She wanted to be as independent as she could be, and make a new life for herself as soon as possible, rather than just be at home on her own

LovelySausage

Yes spot on. I thought this hiding your real feelings/stiff upper lip/don't bore people with your real grief had honestly been consigned to history.

Sadly many posters still seem stuck in this mindset but again I think most on here don't understand as they havnt yet dealt with all consuming grief (thankfully)

I guess we just have to agree to disagree on this. You can tell me I just don’t understand and I don’t get it because I haven’t lost my spouse. And you’re right, I haven’t.

But I don’t think it’s a good idea to spend the majority of the week sitting alone at home watching TV and crying, and only being able to speak about one topic which is your spouse’s death. Including when you go to visit your only son and grandchildren. I won’t change my mind on that.

And if she does want to do this for the rest of her life then that’s her choice but I’m not sure we have to facilitate it.

She is not willing to try any form of support ...

Yes, that's the impression I got, OP
Again, nobody's suggesting she goes stampeding to groups, classes or whatever straight away - especially when it's something she's never done - but to resist absolutely everything quite so completely, and to wish to rely only on you two, seems unfortunate

Using the train example I liked OutForBreakfast's idea about doing the journey with her rather than picking her up as requested - a sort of half way house if you like, involving support but not enablement
Would something like this help her, do you think, or could it just lead to an insistence she can't possibly do it alone in future?

It sounds really tough to know what to do for the best. Someone who just doesn’t seem to be doing anything to support themselves but who at the same time is clearly distressed makes for terribly tough company. We want to help and we are constantly thwarted. Eventually we back away. You absolutely shouldn’t feel you own life has to be on hold in order to help your mum-in-law, and having boundaries is also reasonable. A couple of things…. She might have an idea of what happens when a parent is bereaved ie all the adult children look after the parent, so she may be struggling with the fact that life goes on for you. She will be grieving the future she thought she would have, and she may have some negative ideas about therapy, too. She might think the subtext is ‘hurry up and cheer up’ which is not, of course, what you are saying at all. Some information about how sharing her pain with people who understand it might be less lonely. She sounds paralysed and unable to decide what comes next. An aunt of mine was bereaved in her 60s and my mum found it very hard to get through to her, as she got stuck in the anger of the unfairness of it all. Stages of grief can be mis-applied as if they arena formula, when they are actually stages we can move in and out of and sometimes back to. What happens when you talk about FIL? Can you do things like invite her to share happy memories and photos, for example? Suggest memory boxes and other ways to connect with the love she shared with him. You may feel less burdened if you can help her do something with her feelings.

Exactly her point she's saying how she felt but may not be how others feel.

Everyone grieves differently surely no one needs to be told this?

Is there a point at which she “should” be ready? Genuine question. I know grief has no timeline so if she is still at home on her own crying after two years is it then ok to insist she goes to the GP? After five years? Ten years?

I didn’t say the grief is worse, I said it’s different. The loss of your parents is expected in the normal course of everyday life. I lost my dad to cancer and I’m watching my mum slowly die in front of me with vascular dementia, so you don’t get to tell me I don’t understand or that I’m ‘wallowing’ (fucking awful term) because I’ve asserted that the loss of your life partner is all consuming. And please, do tell, what is a more ‘grateful and proactive approach’ to losing someone you love. Ridiculous post.

Yes, I can imagine although I haven’t RTFT. I am sorry it’s been upsetting, anyone who dismisses the grief of others is absolutely wrong x

@smileladiesplease

Massive difference between stiff upper lip and over burdensome, selfish behaviour for months on end. It’s not an excuse to drain the soul out of people and many people don’t actually.

A lot of men get into another relationship with a woman quickly so do not have to deal with doing new things. Women are far less likely to do this.

My Dad died suddenly around 18 months ago. We were all shell shocked and Mum relied on me a lot in the early days. 18 months on and she does nice things with friends often, but she is absolutely grief stricken and often has days where she doesn’t see the joy in life anymore. It’s all part of grief, yes I find it incredibly hard especially with young children…but she’s my Mum and I love her so much plus she dealt with all my crap growing up 💐