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Original poster

Don’t want to be around bereaved MIL anymore

757 replies

turquoisepenguin · 29/01/2023 10:02

This is probably going to make me sound like the worst person in the world but here goes.

FIL died eighteen months ago, it was quite sudden and he was relatively young (65).

MIL is now very depressed. I do feel very sorry for her because FIL was basically her whole world. She doesn’t have any other family, doesn’t have many friends, doesn’t drive, and is retired. She used to spend most of her time with FIL. So it is really sad.

She recently came to stay. This was actually my suggestion as I know she is bored and lonely and I thought it would cheer her up. Unfortunately it was a disaster. She was in a terrible mood with DH because he asked her to get the train (he used to pick her up and drive to ours but it’s a six hour round trip). So she barely spoke to him or me for the first 24 hours. She didn’t want to go out anywhere so she sat and watched daytime TV for six hours (this is not an exaggeration). She cried a lot of the time and turned most conversations round to FIL.

She is clearly depressed but won’t go to the doctor or have counselling. She is in a terrible place but she won’t accept any help and is very rude to DH. She refused to say goodbye to him, again because she was unhappy about having to get the train. At the end we were both completely exhausted and fed up and the kids were a bit confused by the whole thing.

I had suggested to DH that we should invite her to stay again in March but I’ve just said I think we should abandon that idea because I don’t think I can face it again. However, I also feel like a terrible person because she is obviously very sad. I don’t know what the answer is really. But I have my own issues with work, family illness, kids etc and I just don’t think I can face this on top.

OP posts:
MissWings · 29/01/2023 16:56

@CecilyP

Yes and it still wasn’t enough for her. She sounds like a bottomless pitt.

ZeldaWillTellYourFortune · 29/01/2023 16:57

I think per a pp it would be OK if OP said "MIL, we noticed that you really didn't enjoy your last visit here. We don't want you do to anything that makes you unhappy. Perhaps let's put a hold on visits until you can enjoy them more."

Clymene · 29/01/2023 16:59

Rhondaa · 29/01/2023 16:50

'Some people take responsibility for their own mental well-being. Other people expect other people to pick up the pieces.'

Very noble but some people are simply unable to 'take responsibility for their own wellbeing' at certain stages such as bereavement, that is where the understanding and patience of supposed loved ones comes in you see.

Why is the understanding all one way? Where is her understanding of the fact that her son is a man with a job, a wife, a mortgage (presumably), children and has lost his dad? He cannot afford to sit and cry. He still has to do all the stuff he had to do before and grieve and centre his mother's grief.

And if you are adamant that it can only go one way as it is a very short time since the MIL's husband died, is there any time limit? I'm not suggesting that there is a time limit for grief at all but at what point should MIL's family expect some understanding for them? Two years? Five? Ten?

ZeldaWillTellYourFortune · 29/01/2023 17:00

Blossomtoes · 29/01/2023 16:16

I can’t see the relevance of what some people of the same age were doing 40 odd years ago. I look back on some of the things I was doing in my late teens and I’m horrified at my stupidity and the danger I put myself in. None of that has any relevance to catching a train when you’re 64.

Clearly being driven is symbolic to mil, it made her feel cherished and cared for. Who’s cherishing and caring for her now? Nobody - and at the time she most needs it.

I mean, that's life. Lots of people who live alone get by without being coddled and indulged. Is her son supposed to give up all of his annual leave to pander to a woman who is perfectly able and capable of grabbing a train?

If she doesn't take a good hard look in the mirror and buck up, she is going to drive away the few people who care about her. No one wants to be around a doom-monger. She seems to forget that everyone else is grieving too.

EL8888 · 29/01/2023 17:02

CecilyP · 29/01/2023 16:54

Clearly being driven is symbolic to mil, it made her feel cherished and cared for. Who’s cherishing and caring for her now? Nobody - and at the time she most needs it.

Nobody? She’s been cherished and cared for by being driven by her DS ( making a 6 hour round trip to save her 2 hours on the train) for the last 18 months!

@CecilyP it’s not even 18 months -it started a year before FIL died. She’s had 2.5 years so not a bad go on it bearing in mind FIL chauffeured her around before that

ZeldaWillTellYourFortune · 29/01/2023 17:04

pattihews · 29/01/2023 16:43

Vile post. The OP and her family have supported MIL for 18 months. DH has been doing 6-hour round trips for all that time. They have now had her to stay for a week, which is an incredibly long time to have a visitor when you have small children. MIL has been sulky and ungrateful. They are allowed to have boundaries.

Show quote history

It really is vile. the OP has been a very nice and understanding daughter in law for a year and a half -- amid her own and her husband & children's bereavement!

Just how much indulgence does this MIL expect? She is a comparatively young woman. The world cannot revolve around her forever.

CecilyP · 29/01/2023 17:05

Rhondaa · 29/01/2023 16:18

Yeah let this be a lesson to anyone who has a close relationship and relies on their dh for emotional and practical support, when they're gone don't expect any for your dil!

Show quote history

I wasn’t talking about emotional support just being open to the possibility of using public transport if you don’t drive yourself.

toomuchlaundry · 29/01/2023 17:09

DH does the majority of driving if we are travelling as a couple/family, not sure he does that because he cherishes and cares for me, he just prefers driving and enjoys it more than me. I can drive and will do so if I need to go somewhere without DH

Oddbutnotodd · 29/01/2023 17:09

I haven’t read the whole thread but feel that your MIL has a choice to make. She can either spend the next few years being miserable or make a positive effort to be more cheerful. I too am widowed and although several years have passed it did take 3 or 4 before I felt normalish. She is no age really and I agree that women who are more dependent on their husbands will often find it harder to find a new life after bereavement.
I think that a 2 hour train journey is fine. Sadly there is no time limit to grief; I hope she realises that her son is grieving too; it’s not all about her.

EL8888 · 29/01/2023 17:11

picklemewalnuts · 29/01/2023 13:12

I'm so stumped by some people on this thread. Grieving doesn't mean everyone else has to revolve around you for ever. It simply can't.

We are all hearing this biased by our own experiences, and of course no one thinks she should stop being sad or grieving within 18 months. There's a huge difference though between tearing up at odd moments, and expecting the household to sit respectfully and watch you cry all day.

It still hasn't occurred to DM to ask any of her DC how they are, after DF died. We are constantly berated for not grieving 'correctly'. She bitterly resents not being the number one priority in someone's life- ie that we have to work around our spouse and children as well as her.
I spend half my annual leave with her, but that's not enough.

Driving- apparently as I can't do 6 hour return trip in a day, and it's a rush even with an overnight stay, I should stay longer every time I fetch and deliver her. Or two of us take a day off work and share the driving on the same day. It's unsustainable.

OP, try pointing out it's a marathon not a race, and you and DH need to pace yourselves so that your annual leave and energy last.

@picklemewalnuts exactly, it’s just not reasonable or realistic for things to revolve round one person. Her son is also grieving. He also has 2 children, a wife, a job etc. Plus his colleagues, when he has to phone in “sick”
because she won’t get the train. I would nip that in the bud ASAP

It sounds like you’re doing plenty for your mother. Half of your annual leave and 6 hour round trips aren’t small commitments

smileladiesplease · 29/01/2023 17:15

Reading some of the responses it's clear many have not the smallest inkling of what grief can do to some people. It's been 18 months ffs educate yourselves. Not so much you op I think you are trying very hard to help her but some responses are very harsh and lacking in understanding

RosesAndHellebores · 29/01/2023 17:16

I do have a ds and a dil. Not in a million years would I expect ds, with a full-time job to do a six hour round trip to collect me and then take me home again a few days later

My widowed MIL won't let me do it at 86 so we take Christmas to her nowadays. All five of us.

Grief is visceral and you never recover, just come to terms with it. 26 years ago nearly I buried a baby. I had to carry on to be "bright" for those around me. For the sake of my 2.5 year old. I have periods in that time that I don't remember, people said ten years later how well I did at a christening. I had no recollection of it. However my grief was something for me to manage and somehow I had to find the grit to carry on. Not a partner no, and I cannot imagine losing dh but neither can I imagine making my ds exhaust himself unnecessarily, unable to think through the logic of the impact on him.

Sometimes my mother says "MILs lucky you put up with dh visiting her once a month, not every dil would". My response is that I would be a poor show-of a dil, a wife and a woman, if I couldn't manage without him for a weekend. Similarly if anything happened to DH, I'd be a poor show of a mother not to have some thought and consideration for the needs of my children. It's about the mutuality of love and this seems to be missing in this case.

CPL593H · 29/01/2023 17:16

Jacopo · 29/01/2023 12:10

I feel very sorry for all three of you. I’m a widow and what jumped out at me from your posts OP is the way she is reliving the last few days/hours of her husband. This is a trauma reaction and very understandable. In my view it is a separate grief from the awful sense of loss and the knowledge that the dead person will never return, that you will no longer be able to chat to them, go to the cinema with them, etc etc. It is really a shame that she won’t talk to a professional counsellor about this, because reliving the experience of the death is very much like having PTSD. It might be that your DH should seek some counselling himself even if his mum won’t, because it sounds as if he too is finding those last memories very hard to deal with.
I think you are right to draw some boundaries, she should be able to accept travelling on the train for two hours, and I agree with a previous poster that you’d be quite in order telling her that the silent treatment is not acceptable in your home. But try to say it kindly, acknowledging her pain, and maybe breaking her pain down into separate chunks as I’ve tried (probably clumsily) to do above.

I very much agree with this. On top of being widowed she had no time to prepare, which many of us who have lost spouses did have (hard in its own, different way) and is now experiencing a trauma response and depression. The fact she is reliving his last hours/days repeatedly speaks to that, as @Jacopo says.

I think the emphasis possibly should be on VERY persistently encouraging her to seek whatever help she can be persuaded to, even if it is a chat with her GP, Cruse, anything. She is stuck in her pain and is lashing out (even her silences are part of that) and needs help before this becomes even more entrenched.

You can and should be honest with her about the impact of how she is behaving on especially your husband, but hopefully that can be allied to supporting her to find a way through this.

smileladiesplease · 29/01/2023 17:20

Cpl

Spot on post.

Lovelysausagedogscrumpy · 29/01/2023 17:22

pattihews · 29/01/2023 16:35

It is not about ‘unburdening’ - that’s actually quite insulting to both bereaved people and to grief counsellors.

I don't think I agree. In my experience one of the reasons grief can be complicated is when there are things the bereaved has been carrying alone and can't talk about with family and friends. An affair that they kept secret: the fact that they felt ambivalent about the deceased partner and carry that as guilt. You can imagine the kind of thing. I have encountered people who have carried this on their own and being able to share with someone who won't judge comes as a relief. Their experience appeared to be one of unburdening — or at least sharing the load.

Yes, you’re right. My point about unburdening was in response to some posters who I felt were minimising the role of the counsellors. Talking to someone completely unrelated to family was a relief for me too, having carried quite a few issues around my DH’s death by myself. I was always aware that my family were grieving too and that, I think, possibly made me hold back for fear of causing offence or pain. I wouldn’t disagree with you at all, but again, I think you have to be ready to face your issues in order to gain from counselling. Some people are ready sooner than others and my problem is with the amount of posters thinking that someone who is grieving should be subject to someone else’s timeline on what is a suitable amount of time to grieve. We don’t want to talk about death in this country. It’s very much still a taboo subject and until we can talk openly and honestly about it as a part of life, I think there will always be difficulties. I also think that fear is a big part of it. If we’re in a relationship then we have a fifty fifty chance of being in the same position at some point and no-one wants to think about that. I think that’s evident from some of the responses here.

Rhondaa · 29/01/2023 17:24

'I do have a ds and a dil. Not in a million years would I expect ds, with a full-time job to do a six hour round trip to collect me and then take me home again a few days later'

Yes and nor would I however if I was the dh and my own dm struggled with public transport then I would. I'd try to support and encourage her, build up her confidence. Suggest at some point in the future she could try the train one way if she felt able, whatever. I would do what I could to help a bereaved nervous, depressed person.

MissWings · 29/01/2023 17:27

@Janiie

admirable. I’m sure your efforts could potentially help some people. Unfortunately there are personalities who prey on over empathic people and take, take, take, never plan on any sort of independence and revel in their own misery.

ParallelParadise · 29/01/2023 17:28

Sorry for your loss

Your MIL, I agree could live another 25 to 30 years

Grief takes time

I would suggest your DH goes to stay in March, perhaps he could take one of the children too

Perhaps, while he is there, he could ask if there is anything that he can do to help.
He can make some suggestions, which will probably be turned down, but atleast he will have tried.

Secondly, some people don't change. However, life has forced some changes upon them.

I agree getting a train or bus at 65 (if no health issues) should be manageable.

ancientgran · 29/01/2023 17:30

Lovelysausagedogscrumpy · 29/01/2023 16:35

Everyone is different, and grief is different for everyone. Unless you’ve experienced it for yourself you won’t fully understand. You can be empathetic but until it happens to you, you have no idea how it will affect you.

Show quote history

Her son doesn't seem to have any rights to grieve according to some on here. He won't be grieving like his mother, so what it's his grief and a son can care deeply. I can't believe a mother can be so unfeeling.

ancientgran · 29/01/2023 17:32

Rhondaa · 29/01/2023 17:24

'I do have a ds and a dil. Not in a million years would I expect ds, with a full-time job to do a six hour round trip to collect me and then take me home again a few days later'

Yes and nor would I however if I was the dh and my own dm struggled with public transport then I would. I'd try to support and encourage her, build up her confidence. Suggest at some point in the future she could try the train one way if she felt able, whatever. I would do what I could to help a bereaved nervous, depressed person.

What if he feels he can't keep doing it, do his feelings matter? If his mother can't manage a train journey (clearly she can because she did) and he can't manage the drive where are we then?

Crikeyalmighty · 29/01/2023 17:32

If I can just mention the 'wrenching every conversation round to the one sole topic' - that unfortunately is because in many cases they have nothing going on in life to talk about other than that. It is sadly a vicious circle.

MissWings · 29/01/2023 17:32

@ancientgran

Agreed. Her grief has totally trumped her sons. No one is suffering more than her, no one. Me, me, me, me, me!!!

She may well be more lonely than her son but to not even consider him in this equation is bloody horrible and that is in despite of her grief. It’s not a get out of jail free card for being unfeeling and selfish.

Lovelysausagedogscrumpy · 29/01/2023 17:33

CPL593H · 29/01/2023 17:16

I very much agree with this. On top of being widowed she had no time to prepare, which many of us who have lost spouses did have (hard in its own, different way) and is now experiencing a trauma response and depression. The fact she is reliving his last hours/days repeatedly speaks to that, as @Jacopo says.

I think the emphasis possibly should be on VERY persistently encouraging her to seek whatever help she can be persuaded to, even if it is a chat with her GP, Cruse, anything. She is stuck in her pain and is lashing out (even her silences are part of that) and needs help before this becomes even more entrenched.

You can and should be honest with her about the impact of how she is behaving on especially your husband, but hopefully that can be allied to supporting her to find a way through this.

Show quote history

You can and should be honest with her about the impact of how she is behaving on especially your husband, but hopefully that can be allied to supporting her to find a way through this.

The last paragraph is the reveal. You are suggesting that the OP is persistent in encouraging MIL to seek counselling of some kind, not because she is ready to engage with it, but because her behaviour is having an impact on the OP’s family. Grief is a process, and it’s on the timeline of the bereaved person themselves. Counselling won’t be of any help if MIL is not willing to engage with it, and you can’t force these things. Maybe she is stuck in per pain and she’s lashing out. But maybe that’s because she perceives that the world, including her immediate family, is moving on from the loss before she herself is ready to.

ParallelParadise · 29/01/2023 17:35

Perhaps MIL could rent out a room to a lodger or foreign student ?

Get a PT job

Go to university

Volunteer

Join a gym/fitness/theatre/craft class/local group

Learn to drive/apply for free bus pass

Does she need a project ?

Lovelysausagedogscrumpy · 29/01/2023 17:37

MissWings · 29/01/2023 17:32

@ancientgran

Agreed. Her grief has totally trumped her sons. No one is suffering more than her, no one. Me, me, me, me, me!!!

She may well be more lonely than her son but to not even consider him in this equation is bloody horrible and that is in despite of her grief. It’s not a get out of jail free card for being unfeeling and selfish.

She’s 18 months into the worst experience of her life. She’s not ready to consider the feelings of others, even her own family, because her own grief is all encompassing. Grief is a process and some people take longer than others to come to terms with it. As I’ve said before, it’s her timeline, not her family’s. Have some compassion.