Boy breaks grandmother's arm by accident

[Nimbostratus100]

I am not going to say what happened next and what I think until I have heard a few objective opinions on here

The facts of the case

12 year old boy in sports club, leaving the main entrance on his skateboard, which he has been told is not allowed in the building, knocks over the grandmother coming to collect another child. The grandmother has a broken arm and needed an operation

This is a fairly elite sports club, you need to be able to play to a certain standard to by allowed to join. This boy has played there for a year. No serious trouble, several minor reprimands. Reasonably good player. Turns up for the team probably 80-90% of the time.

This happened last weekend. The sports club is meeting tomorrow. The parents have just heard that this boy has/has not been expelled and will/will not be there.

What do you think should happen? why?

I am allocating the voting by a toss of a coin to be random!

YABU - the boy should be expelled
YANBU - the boy should not be expelled

also, what else should happen, as well as/ instead of being expelled?

Thank you

But do you not think that having been told not to ride a skateboard inside the building, it would dawn on him that this is because it’s dangerous ? Testing the theory has cost this lady dearly - a fact that a lot of posters are trying to minimise.

For me it depends n the club charter of behaviour.

It may have been an accident but it couldn't have happened if he hadn't had the skateboard he was told not to have.

If the club charter of behaviour states they can be kicked out or suspended for behaviour that brings the club into disrepute or for ignoring rules then he'll have to suck it up.

Seems overly harsh but if you choose to ignore a direct instruction continuously you suffer the consequences of your choices.

The grandmother didn't have a choice about whether she was hit by the banned skateboard.

It's difficult to give a well rounded opinion without some of the details that are being missed out. With all due respect, OP, this is already a really specific situation so if you're going to be outed, more detail won't make a difference to that.

For example:

• if it's an elite club, there will be a behaviour policy. What does the policy say?
• what punishment has he already received?
• have any of his previous reprimands been for things that have (or could have) caused harm or risk to others in the club?

The answers to all of these things could change my opinion.

What is your basis for saying he's been testing boundaries for a while? OP says he's only received a few minor reprimands for stuff on the pitch, and it's an absolute certainty that there will be very few boys of his age who haven't. There is no suggestion of his testing boundaries off the pitch.

I agree he needs to be taught about consequences, but that just won't happen if he is thrown out.

@Patineur from the OP leaving the main entrance on his skateboard, which he has been told is not allowed in the building he has been told previously not to take his skateboard.

Although he no doubt intended no harm, he was behaving recklessly and he did cause injuries that are legally described as actual bodily harm.
A possible charge if he was older would be: assault occasioning actual bodily harm. Generally a fine or community service but up to 6 months jail. I'm not suggesting this is a path to follow but the woman injured and her family might.
Best to put in a community based punishment and a suspension, demonstrating that the matter has been addressed seriously.

The club are going to get flack, they need to show that they are in control of the situation and keeping everyone safe.

Where do you get the belief that he has been in the habit of throwing his weight around?

This thread has become ludicrous - so many people trying to defend the indefensible and this, below, wins the internet today for the stupidest, most inane comment and possibly the most insulting to older people.

Doddery old people should take more care around kids - the gran needs to take some responsibility too. She's the adult in this scenario and it seems she didn't properly appraise all the risks and hazards she encountered.

No evidence she was doddery, and no evidence that she was wearing slippers as this poster theorised. To intimate that all older people are doddery and should take responsibility for an inconsiderate youth bowling around a building on a skateboard, after being told not to, is beyond ridiculous. She might be the adult in this situation, but she’d have to be fucking clairvoyant to have seen this coming.

If it suits the victim it would be decent of him to volunteer to help her with heavy shopping / housework until she is better.

How on earth does not wanting the boy to be expelled equate to having no compassion for the woman? It's perfectly possible to have massive compassion for her whilst still advocating a punishment short of expulsion.

Why is expelling him the only possible response? The club which actually knows what happened, knows the woman, knows the boy, knows his record, decided against, but you know better?

Testing the theory has cost this lady dearly - a fact that a lot of posters are trying to minimise.

Yes @Lovelysausagedogscrumpy I’m quite shocked at the ease with which a lot of posters are ignoring the serious injury to a woman in her 60s. Recovering from a broken bone is fucking hard work which gets tougher as you get older. Those of you saying it was an accident , try spending the next 6-10 weeks with the use of only one arm.

Mark19735
I've seen some ludicrous comments on this board but yours really takes the biscuit ....
"Ultimately, it is intent that matters, not consequence. If I was defending the boy, I'd be asking about CCTV and eye witnesses.
There's a world of difference between recklessly travelling at high speed without looking where you are going and in so doing hitting a person so hard they fall over, and casually scooting along a wide corridor, passing a person who is doddery, old, frail, possibly hard of hearing, potentially wearing inappropriate footwear for the environment (slippers?) and easily startled, who then stumbles and falls. Both scenarios could result in the injuries you describe, but the culpability would be very different. And in the absence of strong evidence of the former, I'd be painting the latter picture. Doddery old people should take more care around kids - the gran needs to take some responsibility too. She's the adult in this scenario and it seems she didn't properly appraise all the risks and hazards she encountered.
As an aside - it sounds like a nasty, snobby club full of ghastly people - I'd move the kid to a rival club, and have him come back and knock this club out of whatever tournaments they compete in."

This put me in mind of an incident a couple of years ago. The front doors of our houses open out onto a wide pavement, and our neighbour stepped out one morning only to be knocked over by the paper boy who was riding his bike on the pavement. She was taken to hospital by ambulance and treated for a broken arm and concussion. The paper boy was 13. He had been reported to the newsagents several times for riding on the pavement, and when the ambulance was called, the police were too. I think he was charged with assault resulting in actual bodily harm, although I don’t know what the outcome was. As you say, if this isn’t dealt with appropriately, there is the possibility that this woman’s’ family may want to go down the same path, given the seriousness of her injuries.

He was told not to skateboard. The likelihood is that someone saw him with his skateboard and reminded him of the rule.. That is not a reprimand.

Yes, of course he knew it was wrong. That isn't the same of repeating something he has already been told off for.

I have to admit I don't know what you're arguing about. You've suggested that you accept that any punishment could be less than expulsion, which roughly agrees with what a lot of the people you are arguing with are advocating. Or do you in fact think he should be chucked out?

I'm not far off grandmother age (very plausible now, easily). I'd be furious if the boy was 100% expelled on my behalf. I could shrug about a brief suspension. Accidents happen. Live & let live.

Really, some people on MN take their desperation to attack others to fairly ridiculous lengths

pot: meet kettle

Yet again, it does not say that he came into the building on his skateboard. It says he arrived at the building on it.

Exactly

some people just enjoy attacking those with different views.

Why thank you! I love winning the internet.

I'm just highlighting the dissonance between people coming down hard on a 12 year old kid with no evidence of intent, or of circumstance, or of mitigation ... and yet jumping to the defence of a senior citizen with ... no evidence of other mitigating factors.

If a dog had run in front of her, she'd have probably fallen too. Would you want the animal destroyed? If a sudden gust of wind had blown a door shut creating a loud bang, she'd have probably been startled and maybe fallen too. Who would you blame then?

Like I said - if I was defending the kid, I'd absolutely monster this old lady, her faculties, her judgment, and I'd be demanding disclosure of medical records and looking for evidence of pre-existing medical conditions. Anything to cast doubt in the mind of the decision-maker that this kid is as evil and blameworthy as many of the posters on this thread seem to think. That's how an adversarial system works. Seems some people only approve of it when it is used against the poor and vulnerable.

The 'crime' is not huge (skating on board a few metres from where this is allowed). He was certainly wrong to do what he had been told not to.

If he had been seen and stopped before the crash, would he have been expelled for his actions? Would it have seemed so serious an offence?

How have other 12 year olds been treated for breaking similar rules?

The consequences of his action this time were much larger than they might have been. This was the unlucky/accident part.

It doesn't seem fair to punish him more severely because his impulsive (wrong) behaviour had such a bad result.

Yes, it's good to consider this angle.

I was injured by someone - slightly older than this child - doing something daft. It was supposed to be a joke, it went wrong, and I ended up with a year or two or symptoms. He'd been warned to do daft stuff like this, but he did it anyway.

Like you, I would be livid if his life was upended and changed for the worse as a punishment. Completely disproportionate. There's nothing I'd want less.

I don’t necessarily think he should be expelled, but that’s down to the club. I do think is that there should be a punishment that teaches him it’s not acceptable to ignore rules and do as you like, because obeying those rules interferes with your enjoyment. As I said, actions have consequences and the punishment should teach that those consequences will affect the wrongdoer as well as the victim. There is also the small matter of him being over the age of criminal responsibility, so the club need to make the punishment appropriate to the seriousness of the incident, or risk the family of the injured woman taking it further.

@Mark19735 you need to remember the egg shell skull stuff.

Also coming across as a misogynistic twat is never a good look.

Age hasn’t been mentioned. Grandmother could be 45-50! So not necessarily old and doddery. Not that it’s relevant.

The question is whether a 12yo could reasonably be expected to foresee that this accident might happen. Obviously he knew he wasn’t supposed to skateboard indoors, but I’d argue that he’s still a child so couldn’t be expected to realise his actions would lead to this accident.

YES, I think all of that. With the slight caveat that 12 year olds can be bloody stupid and always think that bad consequences can't possibly happen to them. None of which means that they shouldn't suffer appropriate punishment for their stupid actions when they do what they're told not to do.

Yet again, you seem to be looking for an argument and/or making up the facts. I have made it clear several times that I think this was a serious offence that merits a serious punishment. I just don't think it merits permanent exclusion.

The quality of his playing, the quality of the club and his attendance shouldn't be a factor. What matter is that he was told not to skateboard in the building but he did and now someone got hurt. A fractured arm can be pretty serious especially for someone elderly. I think he should be suspended for a long time if not expelled.