work issue - who was wrong

[Chouette123]

Who is U?

2 managers, same small team, let's call them Jill and Sandra.
Jill's report Bob has issues with performance. Despite interventions, this does not improve. It has been decided that Bob will be let go.

While this has been discussed, Bob has gone to HR to make a complaint about Jill. They cannot work together, Jill is too controlling and always critical of Bob's work even though his performance is fine, Bob doesn't like the communication style and finds it very rude and so on. HR, Jill and Bob discuss the matter and HR does not find Bob's accusations hold water.

Jill tells Sandra that Bob is about to be let go. Sandra now tells Jill that Bob had also approached Sandra some time ago (before he went to HR) to complain about Jill. Sandra had told Bob that if Bob had addressed those issues to Jill and they didn't find a solution, he could talk to either HR, or Jill's manager.

Jill feels betrayed and that she no longer trusts her colleague. She feels she needed to know this info to protect herself against accusations from Bob. She feels Sandra could have at least given her heads up that Bob might be up to something. Sandra feels that as she was told about the concerns in confidence.

Who is U, Jill or Sandra?

most companies would recommend meetings that aren’t 1 on 1 for performance related issues. And everything is documented to avoid the situation you’re in

youve been let down by your company not your colleague

It sounds like Jill is suddenly panicking that Bob is making a complaint about her

If Jill hasn’t done anything wrong, why would she worry about this? Or why would she feel like she should of done things differently?

Jill is worried Bob will make stuff up and she has no evidence to contrary

Bob also no evidence.

Team Sandra

Was Jill doing things wrong then if Jill feels like she could have done somethings different has she known about the complaint? Of course Sandra is in the right. Sandra has to regain professional. Sandra can't be running off to tell Jill what Bob said as it would breach his confidentiality. Jill needs to realise it ain't all about her

Jill is in the wrong.

Sandra acted appropriately.

To clarify, Jill is wrong. He may well be shit and need sacking, but Samdra followed correct procedure including not telling you Jill about his complaint.

How on Earth has anyone got to the point that someone is being sacked with no documented evidence?

2 different issues. Bob's performance issues are documented, Jill's manager agrees that measures are not working and he needs to go.
Jill is upset about the HR complaint and that there might be more to come - Bob has complained about hostile work environment, unprofessional conduct and so on. Difficult to prove what you did or did not say if it's just you 2 present.

I think Sandra did well in this situation.

I hope Jill isn't treating Sandra poorly now as Sandra did everything by the book and Jill sounds like a right PITA

Sandra has behaved correctly.

It is a worry if Jill would have behaved differently if she knew there was a complaint about her going in to HR. Jill should be acting correctly in the first place.

Jill is in the wrong. Sandra has acted professionally. Are you OK Jill?

Jill is unreasonable re Sandra. Nothing here says she’s an awful person however (🤨) if she followed all the right steps re Bob.

Though if she wasn’t already documented every interaction with Bob she was acting a little naively and unprofessionally. She shouldn’t have needed Sandra’s heads up re that.

Jill needs training in how to properly manage people. Verbal instructions should be confirmed in writing, principally because people process information differently, but also to create a chain that everyone can refer back to if the need arises. Bob can check he’s recalling correctly that he was assigned a task, Jill can check she’s remembering correctly and did assign it, and so on.

If Jill feels she could have acted differently, she should examine why she isn’t already doing those things, for the comfort and protection of both herself and those she manages.

Sandra has handled things correctly.

No it’s not 2 different issues.

If you are performance managing someone you ensure everything documented. Including your interactions with a person you are performance managing with a view to sacking them.

You make sure someone is there to back up that you followed the correct procedures. Back up that you communicated properly during your performance management meetings. You make sure you have (as an example) and email to back up that you requested him to do something and he didn’t.

The fact that she says she now has nothing to say that she acted correctly, is very worrying. The fact that she would have changed what she did, is worrying. Jill doesn’t know what she is doing.

OK it's pretty unanimous. Thanks, I'll get a glass of wine now, as this has been an..interesting week.

I'm Sandra.

I also thought I did everything right. Yes, the decision to say anything at all is something I now regret, but I was really trying to look out for Jill, and she already knew about the HR complaint.
But my dear colleague Jill was so adamant that I've done the worst thing imaginable in the entire world ever, that I honestly started doubting myself.

Sandra is right. Its essential that the rights of staff to discuss issues in confidence is protected. Just imagine if your manager was bullying or sexually harassing you and you couldn't speak to another manager because you thought it would get back to them? Realistically managers do often give each other a heads up, but its very unprofessional and unfair.

Enjoy your wine, OP, and float on your well-deserved, MN-endorsed cushion of righteousness! It sounds like Jill is about to have a whole lot more to worry about than your ‘betrayal’ of her, so I’m sure she’ll simmer down soon!

I would ask for this thread to be taken down as this is a busy site and it would not be great if somebody recognised this. I understand that you were looking for reassurance - sounds like a horrible situation. But best to get this deleted now if you can.

popyourcollar I'm in another country where MN is not used and I am confident none of the people involved have ever even heard of the site. But you're right though that there are the tabloids..

You did nothing wrong whatsoever and I would say acted totally appropriately.

Enjoy your glass of wine.

I agree.

Both Jill and Sandra should have kept their mouths shut though - Jill should not have told Sandra that Bob was leaving and Sandra didn't need to tell Jill that Bob had complained.

Ah just seen you are Sandra. Jill is totally in the wrong, so don't worry about that.

Jill unreasonable to discuss redundancy if not involved in the decision.

Jill is U