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Beauty students asked to strip in front of trans rapist at college AFTER sex attacks

957 replies

scratchedbymycat · 27/01/2023 12:42

My AIBU title taken from this news article:

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/beauty-students-asked-strip-front-29063499

This whole 'Isla Bryson' cluster-fuck has me angrier than I can describe.

These girls had to accept and trust this vile individual in their beauty course on the basis of Isla's claim to be a woman, nothing more. They even tolerated abuse from Isla.

They were not told this individual was facing charges of rape. The college claim they didn't know either. Because 'Isla' said he was a women, these young women felt they had no choice but to strip to virtually naked in front of him. Failing to do so would be 'bigoted'.

But he also happens to be a serial rapist. Young women, some possibly aged 16 or so, stripping to virtually naked while a serial rapist watches. If this was my daughter I would be going mad.

Where is the safeguarding?

AIBU to feel viscerally angry with all our politicians about this?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
20
Tygger · 28/01/2023 12:29

👌

scratchedbymycat · 28/01/2023 12:31

@@JudgeRudy I’m replying to you but I suspect many will have this thought so I am really writing a very long response for the benefit of all women who do not lurk or read the demise sections of MN, or who don’t know the ins and outs of the issue.

I agree the whole thing is upsetting but I'd say the main factor was that this was a rapist rather than their gender/sex/transidentity. I'm not sure quite how safeguarding could be applied.

At face value, I can understand why you and possibly most of the public would think this, but it is more complex and nuanced than that.

It is incredibly important that women understand the nuance and how this event happened because the fact that it was able to happen at all reveals why self-id identity politics is a serious threat to women and girls. So I'm going to try spell it out as straightforwardly as I can.

First: I'm going to reply using Stonewall's position on self-id. Stonewall lobbies heavily and uses all their power and resources to get politicians, organisations, government departments, schools etc to adopt this view. This is very very important to understand.

ISSUE #1

Stonewall's position is that if a biological man says they are a women, then that is what they are. No debate. ("No debate" is stonewalls actual slogan). Further, that that biological male's 'woman' status is exactly equal to biological woman's status irrespective of everything.

Very very important: He may have a beard, male genitalia, never ever take hormones etc, but Stonewall's position is that he is as much a woman as I am. There are men who will apply lipstick amongst their male stubble and beard, and that may be their only nod towards 'womanliness'. But they are - according to radical trans activists - as much a woman as a biological woman.

On the basis of self-id, he now has the absolute right to enter all women's spaces: hospital wards, changing rooms, female prisons, girls toilets at school etc. He has a right to compete against women in sport. He can win female awards, and join in on female short lists. He can demand that he is searched by women police officers etc etc. He IS a woman. No debate.

This logic means: a woman can have a penis; rape is no longer a male crime, it can be committed by women too etc

So understanding all that ...

Isla Bryson is a woman, according to Stonewall. So is Katie Dolatowski (transgender paedophile who targets young girls); Paris Green (murderer); Charlene aka Jonathan Mallon (serial rapist); Sophie Eastwood (murderer who identifies as a baby); Karen White (rapist who went on to rape two more inmates when put in a female prison); there’s another serial rapist as well, whose name I’ve forgotten … these are UK cases. Internationally there are more.

ISSUE #2

Biological natal ‘xx’ women (I have to clarify which women I’m talking about here - normally I’d just say women) have been flagging that self-id presents a safety risk to women and girls. They have been saying that male predators will exploit self-id and use it to harm women and girls. The issue is that every time they say this, they are accused of being transphobic, of being hateful and cruel. Google ‘Lloyd Russell-Moyle’: he literally accused a female parliamentarian of dog-whistle transphobia and bigotry in parliament when she flagged concerns about risks to women. The following week Isla Bryson made the news.

Women are NOT allowed to discuss this; we are not allowed to speak up for our daughters; we are being silenced and refused the right to campaign or mobilise for the safety of women and girls. This is why J.K.Rowling is described as hateful and transphobic. The ONLY thing she has done is use her voice to consistently speak up for women and girls. This is ‘evidence’ of transphobia. Female academics have been hounded out of their jobs for daring to research this subject; women have been fired or ‘cancelled’ if they do the same. Careers have been destroyed. The campaign to prevent women from speaking out is very real, nasty and quite effective at silencing us.

ISSUE #3:

The Equality Act enshrines protections for women and even specifically refers to transgender women. For example, it acknowledges that in rape crisis counselling, it might be necessary to exclude transgender women because their presence might be distressing for victims of rape.

The EA implicitly recognises that while transgender women with a GRC are legally female, there is still a ‘difference’ between them and natal women, which relates to biology. Stonewall does not recognise this difference or any difference at all. Stonewall and radical activists consider biology to be totally irrelevant.

However, the EA is a useful deflection point for transgender activists, the Scottish government etc, who will point to the Equality Act as proof natal women are still being protected.

In practice, on the ground, it’s all Stonewall’s rules and it’s a completely different story. Organisations are too fearful to use their right to legally segregate spaces because of allegations of transphobia. Stonewall would consider a safe space for natal women as unfairly excluding some women - transgender women - who by their rules are exactly the same as natal women. In practice, Stonewall and trans radical activists would lobby for that organisation to have funding withdrawn, activists would vilify the employees, they would be targeted on social media, their reputations careers destroyed.

For example, there’s an extremely brave case going to court soon where a natal female is suing a rape crisis centre for NOT providing a single space sex. They provide segregated spaces for men, trans, etc … but not for women. Another example, JK Rowling has recently set up/funded a single sex space because women can’t access one - this is apparently motivated exclusively by pure hate for transgender women. Third example, Edinburgh Rape Crisis is headed by a trans woman who believes that natal rape survivors need to “reframe their trauma” to accommodate male bodies voices etc in their healing spaces.

Pulling all these threads together now:

BACK TO ISLA BRYSON USING STONEWALLS RULES

These young girls were watched getting naked by a serial rapist because

1: He IS a woman. He is no different to them except maybe in age. He is a woman. End of.

2: Women can have penises and rape can be a female crime

3: The girls have zero grounds to refuse to undress in front of him because that makes no sense at all - he IS a woman.

4: If they, or the college, or the teachers asked him to leave the room while they undressed on the basis of his generalist they would be transphobic, hateful and guilty of excluding a WOMAN from a WOMENS SPACE. Genitalia difference is no more important than eye colour difference. This is gross discrimination. (Genitalia and biology is irrelevant).

5: If Isla had been offended by this gross discrimination and shared it with her trans allies, the college, students and teachers would all have been targeted en masse, aggressively and quickly become known as unkind and transphobic and hateful. People would have turned up holding banners describing them as hateful, maybe even calling for death. Very very bad for business.

This is how a serial rapist gets to very easily sit and watch young girls strip to almost naked.

Had he tried all of the above WITHOUT declaring himself a women, the college would have taken sensible measures to protect the girls and the girls would have felt OK to refuse to undress in front of him, and no one would have blinked an eye at this. Had they been able to do this, a serial rapist would have been denied the opportunity to watch young girls strip. But they were not able to do this at all.

He got away with this, and the fact it happened at all, has EVERYTHING to do with trans identity politics and activism. Everything.

It is so important women understand what is happening, put to one side any worries about being transphobic, and just carefully think it through. We are not safe.

OP posts:
ThreeblackCats · 28/01/2023 12:35

Women are no longer second class citizens, we now rank third after men then trans! What would the suffragettes make of the state of things.

scratchedbymycat · 28/01/2023 12:40

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 28/01/2023 09:07

First you say this:

The main factor was that this was a rapist rather than their gender/sex/trans identity.

And then you say this:

I'm not sure quite how safeguarding could be applied.

Safeguarding requires treating them like any other male student when it comes to getting undressed in class. And making sure the same rules apply in a mixed sex class regardless of trans identity. So if there are safeguarding differences between what men can do among women students and what women can do among women students then those differences still apply. No cheeky pushing the limits for a trans student.

There are basically two practical ways to do safeguarding: either a trans student has to disclose their status and is treated as their birth sex for all mixed-sex activities and is excluded from an activity that is only safe as single-sex; or no-one has to disclose and all activities are treated as mixed sex no matter what sex or gender people say they are or appear to be - which means any activity which can't be made safe as a mixed-sex activity has to stop for the whole class.

Safeguarding adults doesn't mean knowing if any individual student was accused of rape or not. No-one has a duty to inform the college.

Safeguarding doesn't assume that anyone is a rapist. It protects against the people who might be. Trans identity doesn't change that.

Which is a longwinded way of saying, yes it is about their sex and gender and trans identity and it's not about whether the college found out that one person is accused of rape or not.

Totally this ...

OP posts:
scratchedbymycat · 28/01/2023 12:44

@Emotionalsupportviper

If my DD had been still in Brownies/ Guides I would have withdrawn her straight away.

My DD has never had the pleasure of experiencing Brownies / guides because I am not willing to expose her to potential risk.

OP posts:
Rafferty10 · 28/01/2023 12:49

Of course this sort of thing, is exactly what all sensible women knew was going to happen, whilst we were being shouted down and called vile and anti trans and evil.
If it has a penis it is a man.

Boiledbeetle · 28/01/2023 12:51

CryInToYourCornflakesNicola · 28/01/2023 12:21

Ooh boiled us using the bigly words, she means business today methinks.

I will admit there has been rather a lot of things that require those just scrolling to notice. And of course there's been a lot of things to be very angry about.

I was on the phone yesterday to my sister and she was obviously distracted she was reading a thread on here..her baby sister was using the bigly letters a lot to admonish an 80s actors tweet.

Outed! (If she hadn't have already known my username!)

😁

Rainbowshit · 28/01/2023 13:12

Tygger · 28/01/2023 12:26

WTF is a college doing by asking and/or allowing girls to get virtually naked as a part of the beauty course. Sounds to me like the lecturers are also perverts.😡

How do you think they practice spray tans and waxing?!

scratchedbymycat · 28/01/2023 13:15

One of the goals trans radical activists need to achieve is to conceal the fact that trans gender women commit crimes we associate with men.

(MN moderators - I'm working on the logic that a transgender woman IS a woman according to Stonewall. I am stating as fact that transgender women CAN commit male violence crimes based on fact that Isla Bryson did and there are several others who have been convicted of sex crimes who now identify as women. Names above, and it's all public record).

The fact that Isla Bryson is both transgender and a rapist is horribly inconvenient to groups like Stonewall. The public have shown they are not quite ready to accept the full logic of self-id which is that women can also be rapists. Everyone talking about this is dodging the fact that Isla Bryson IS transgender - No debate - and claiming instead that he is faking it.

Radical activists have previously dealt with this inconvenience by blanket denying that transgender women are ever a risk at all. My husband received an email from his MSP stating that there is no evidence anywhere that transgender women pose a risk to natal women and girls.

Isla Bryson has exposed that lie. And because Isla is in the news, we've had a window to reveal all the other transgender women who are also guilty of rape crimes which some women have already been aware of.

If you believe, as Sophie-Grace Chappell (transgender academic) does, that self-id is a basic human right, then you also accept that this will mean there will be an increase in violence against women and girls. Sophie-Grace Chappell doesn't deny this fact. Sophie-Grace Chappell has actually stated that if there is an uptick in violence then, so be it, because a human right trumps safety concerns.

So that's where we're headed.

Transgender women are women even if they rape or predate on women. The self-id logic is that crimes should be recorded as female crimes.

End result: no more talk about transgender women being a threat. Instead we'll talk about rape as a crime committed by men AND women. We'll have an uptick in crimes against natal women, and an sudden increase in violent crimes being committed by women, but all will be tickety -boo on the trans rights / human rights front.

Natal women have nothing to object to at all. Nothing at all.

It's massively fucked up.

OP posts:
Tygger · 28/01/2023 13:19

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 28/01/2023 13:29

If men aren’t allowed into their beauty classes they have no need to do any of those things

but a man was allowed in; they were told this man was a woman and if they complained they’d be in trouble for being bigoted

nilsmousehammer · 28/01/2023 13:29

The behaviour the women on the course were subjected to..... when they complained, they were told they were wrong to mind and want it to stop. That the problem was not the behaviour of the person doing it, but their boundaries and prejudices. They were told to be kind and told they were transphobic.

And now it's confirmed that the behaviour was being carried out by a convicted serial sex offender?

Well now it's ok retrospectively that they minded. But it wasn't at the time.

Interesting twitter thread here on the behaviours of some of the other male prisoners currently in the women's estate.

twitter.com/oceanbreathcafe/status/1618802678376845312?s=46&t=AiHxH-1ATVKi6tJzGzWA8A

Bear in mind that an MSP's comments on Bryson being removed was how it relieved the MSP's concerns that Bryson may have presented a threat to.... these other violent males with severely inappropriate behaviour, leaving the wreckage of women prisoners and staff behind them.

MenopausalMe · 28/01/2023 13:34

Sadly as soon as trans activists starting saying any mention of safeguarding by women was a ‘transphobic dog whistle’ and that being endorsed by (mostly but not exclusively) Labour MPs this was the inevitable result.

Those poor girls and they won’t be the only girls on a course with male who identifies as trans.

WarriorN · 28/01/2023 13:58

The behaviour the women on the course were subjected to..... when they complained, they were told they were wrong to mind and want it to stop. That the problem was not the behaviour of the person doing it, but their boundaries and prejudices. They were told to be kind and told they were transphobic.

Sacred caste.

There's no coincidence that many abusers have been in the church / scouts / sports coaches. Savile.

Position of power, influence and close access to those they want to abuse.

The forced teaming with the LGB and the ability to refer to how LGB were smeared as predators in the past, which they were, is being used as a shield to deflect due analysis.

WarriorN · 28/01/2023 14:00

Shocking thread Nils.

WarriorN · 28/01/2023 14:03

Mentioning scouts; the ridiculousness in the brownies is paving the way for abusers to access young girls.

It's not as bad in the cubs from what I've seen. Seem to be more girls joining cubs though from what I've seen so I hope it doesn't go to the dogs.

YouJustDoYou · 28/01/2023 14:06

WarriorN · 28/01/2023 13:58

The behaviour the women on the course were subjected to..... when they complained, they were told they were wrong to mind and want it to stop. That the problem was not the behaviour of the person doing it, but their boundaries and prejudices. They were told to be kind and told they were transphobic.

Sacred caste.

There's no coincidence that many abusers have been in the church / scouts / sports coaches. Savile.

Position of power, influence and close access to those they want to abuse.

The forced teaming with the LGB and the ability to refer to how LGB were smeared as predators in the past, which they were, is being used as a shield to deflect due analysis.

Jesus fucking christ, those poor girls.

How many times? HOW MANY TIMES do these fake transwomen have to commit sexual crimes against xx females for vital safety issues that women ask for to be taken even an iota seriously?

What is it going to take for the TRAs to comprehend that women and girls WILL ALWAYS BE ABUSED by a system that allows these kind of men the keys to the sweet shop? We know NATW. But we don;t know the difference, DUH.

Shut up women. Shut up girls. Don't you dare say anything against the be-penised human flashing you. Don't you dare say you don't want to look at it's penis. Don't you dare, as a lesbian, say you don;t get turned on by "her" penis .Transphobic! Nazi! Bigot!

.....It's insane, right? Horrifyingly insane.

nilsmousehammer · 28/01/2023 14:08

It also implies that this abusive behaviour to women is not an unacceptable bug, but a necessary feature.

FOJN · 28/01/2023 14:10

Not content with creating a culture of fear which prevents women from boxing their concerns the Scottish government have emboldened someone Scotland's most violent men to applying be transferred to the female prison estate.

This delightful individual has now been approved for transfer to a women's prison. Prison guards have needed what is effectively riot shields to manage this prisoner and a court was lockdown because they were too dangerous for open court.

Tell me again about risk assessments carried out on a case by case basis?

If this individual is deemed safe for a women's prison then the female prisoners of Scotland stand no chance and for that I am truly sorry you have women hating arseholes making decisions which endanger you.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/court-put-lockdown-dangerous-dirty-11081394#amp-readmore-target

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/new-trans-prisoner-storm-looms-29069314

bellinisurge · 28/01/2023 14:10

Anyone who objects to safeguarding needs a hard drive check.
Enough with this nonsense. We need to protect women and girls not fragile male egos.
In the same way not all priests, social workers, sports coaches and teachers are predators, nor are all transwomen. But anyone who wants access to women's spaces should not get access to that space on their say so. And if they are male bodied, they shouldn't at all.

piggypoole · 28/01/2023 14:13

scratchedbymycat · 27/01/2023 12:42

My AIBU title taken from this news article:

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/beauty-students-asked-strip-front-29063499

This whole 'Isla Bryson' cluster-fuck has me angrier than I can describe.

These girls had to accept and trust this vile individual in their beauty course on the basis of Isla's claim to be a woman, nothing more. They even tolerated abuse from Isla.

They were not told this individual was facing charges of rape. The college claim they didn't know either. Because 'Isla' said he was a women, these young women felt they had no choice but to strip to virtually naked in front of him. Failing to do so would be 'bigoted'.

But he also happens to be a serial rapist. Young women, some possibly aged 16 or so, stripping to virtually naked while a serial rapist watches. If this was my daughter I would be going mad.

Where is the safeguarding?

AIBU to feel viscerally angry with all our politicians about this?

Yes they did have a choice . They were bullied out of it . This is unacceptable.

TangledWebOfDeception · 28/01/2023 14:16

It’s infuriating. There’s nothing ‘sad’ about it for me.

It makes absolutely no difference whether the man is a ‘fake’ transwoman or not. They ALL count as transwomen, by that side’s OWN rule book. So no, they don’t get to say ‘oh but this isn’t a ‘real’ transowman.’

YOU WILL BE BOUND BY YOUR OWN RULES.

Plenty of ‘real’ transwomen ARE predatory. They are not a sacred caste.

That’s STILL beside the point, though.

WOMEN AND GIRLS DO NOT NEED TO SHARE THEIR SPACES WITH ANY MALE AND SHOULD NOT BE COMPELLED TO DO SO. IT IS NOT WRONG FOR US TO EXPECT (AND DEMAND) PRIVACY, DIGNITY AND PROTECTION.

caramac04 · 28/01/2023 14:24

If my daughter had been subject to this I would feel sick.
The person responsible though is the man in the room.
Maybe colleges need to look at their recruitment process and only have two students spray tanning one another and that they choose their partners. If no one wants to partner the man then maybe a tutor should.
Did this man strip down to paper pants whilst in full possession of his penis? Whether he did or not the whole situation is completely unacceptable and I hope the poor girls weren’t subjected to the sight of his penis in paper pants.

RichardBarrister · 28/01/2023 14:26

TangledWebOfDeception · 28/01/2023 09:40

For those of you who are aghast at this, now would be a good time to look into Girl Guides.

Definitely!! That’s a whole other story.

Anyone worried about safeguarding of teenage girls on their beauty course should absolutely by worried about the self id policies in the Girl Guides.

Safeguarding concerns have been raised by long standing Guide leaders who were removed from their posts as a result. Imagine, a children’s organisation that sacks people who raise legitimate safeguarding concerns about the issues with mixing boys and girls in overnight sleeping accommodation without even informing parents.

The policies also allowed Guide leaders to self id their sex so male people could work with the girls as if they were female.

They employed a trans identifying male who thought it appropriate to pose on social media in skimpy lingerie in hotel corridors and with machine guns. The name this individual used was not his real name, it appeared to be a reference to a sex act.

This person was involved in writing policies for GG and apparently had contact with the children. After the outcry over the pictures (one worried parent who wrote to HQ was threatened with the police which added to the concerns), he resigned (wasn’t sacked) and was apparently invited to join the Scouts.

I don’t mean to derail but this was a good point and well worth expanding upon while you’re all here. There is more detail on this in FWR threads.