To wonder if manager did this deliberately

[Eastie77Returns]

I had my annual pay review today over a call. My manager opened the document up on a shared screen and began talking me through it. It was immediately clear to me I was looking at someone else’s document and the base pay was completely different to mine. Overall this person is paid £80k more than me. I was so stunned at this discrepancy I could not register what my manager was saying to me. After a few minutes she ‘realised’ the mistake and shut down the document.

She is usually meticulous and can’t believe this was an error so I think for some reason she wants me to know. She made a point of telling me at the start of the call that she had just finished ‘Jane’s’ pay review (my colleague) so I don’t know if I’m suppose to conclude this is Jane’s pay.

Needless to say I am job hunting.

I am so confounded by this whole situation, I am just in a daze. I knew people in my team were paid different amounts but never dreamt the discrepancy could be so wide. I think I am probably the lowest paid member of the team.

There are quite a few elephants in this room, not least the OP cannot be certain the details were Jane's details.

Beyond that, everyone saying the manager did this deliberately, on what are you basing that? That the OP said the manager is meticulous? Meticulous people are 100% error-free, 100% of the time? An off-hand remark that the manager had just concluded Jane's review? Really?

Let's hypothosise - the details were Jane's. Jane 'recently' promoted to the identical job as OP has already outearned OP by some £50k in commission. What does that tell us? It actually tells us nothing concrete. We don't know just how 'recently' Jane was promoted, whether she's been given or earned 'juicier' contracts or whether she's just worked a damned sight harder than OP. What it does tell us is Jane is almost certainly hungrier for the job than OP i.e. £50k hungrier. It also tells us that, most likely, those 'recently' appointing Jane to the identical job as OP were very astute in recognising the potential in Jane and offered her a higher basic salary on that potential. Potential which, on the face of it, has materialised into productivity.

Let's hypothosise - the details were not Jane's. To whom else could they belong? Someone more senior to both Jane and OP within the manager's team? The manager's own details? In fact they could be anyone's because, and we're back to the first elephant here, the OP cannot be certain they were Jane's details.

Oh, and I'm with @Aprilx in being confused by OP's posts about having her CV up to date because (ironically) the manager insisted this was a good thing to do (11:19 post) and her having just trawled through her emails etc. to 'update' her CV with many (until that morning) forgotten about accomplishments and achievements (14:43 post).

MN at its finest. Chasing ghosts and making up a narrative based on zero facts.

Is there any post, no matter how innocuous, that is immune from the wannabe Sherlocks on here?

Sorry, I must have missed the 'critical thinking' check-in booth as I arrived.

Don't think there's a problem with the CV updating question - my cv is up to date but I still wouldn't have exact achievements and their impacts recorded, that is something you do to punch it up at the moment you're thinking of applying for something.

I am interested in why OP thinks she hasn't been promoted or progressed. Your managers may be crap and just listening to who shouts loudest - that could well be true.

But there's something about knowing what your manager's problems are and how you can help to solve them- thinking up a level- that people need to do who want promotion. It's different from doing your own specific job and it is a bit networky I'm afraid.

You would have taken a screenshot of someone's personal data that you had been shown in error? It's clear the sort of person you are ...

I used to be a manager running a technical team (not IT). It was the same for us - we had a budget that us managers had to split between everyone and even if someone really, really deserved a huge pay rise, if it wasn't in the year's budget, then there was absolutely nothing we could do. And someone being paid less than others wouldn't be seen as a reasonable excuse to blow the budget and hand out a big pay rise.

I worked for a very large company, which was probably half of the problem. Everything was planned so far ahead and budgeted meticulously. The company is ridiculously successful but everything is kept so stripped back there's not a spare penny to be found anywhere.

So I totally sympathise OP.

Also, your later comments regarding networking - I can't imagine anything worse. Balls to that. Go and find somewhere that values you for doing the excellent job you very clearly do.

ps - I remember the gratitude journal thread, and I have to say, I don't think it would be a bad thing to escape your manager either! 😅

Exactly! Mine is up to date in that it has my most recent employments/qualifications listed but I add more around the time of looking for new jobs, swap out previously listed experience for more recent projects I’ve done. I don’t tend to update it in real time.

What does it matter though, some posters seem to think it’s a “gotcha” moment but I can’t see the relevance to what the OP is asking about.

Yeah it probably does. I've survived a toxic workplace, and learnt the lesson of documenting everything.

A little part of me want you to go to Jane with the breach😶sorry bitch mode.
i really want an update from you with a new job op!
Perhaps even you having then confronted miss mental health

Yeah no-one talks about what they earn in my team (well to me at least!) so there isn’t much transparency. I’ve really lost motivation re this job now but as you say will use this as a springboard to make a move.

@nvcontrolfreak that is good to hear and I definitely feel staying so long at this company has been to my detriment. I’ve been complacent and sent a message to managers that I’m ok to be treated like this.

@WithSympathies yes 100%, I’m not minded to go in and try to negotiate. I’m past trying to convince them. I think I would benefit from coaching but I’m not sure I lack confidence. As I mentioned previously I tried the recommended professional schoomzing but the managers I contacted didn’t respond to it. However they did when my colleague tried the same thing. My face doesn’t fit at this company which I’m actually not taking personally, I think it’s a cultural (mis)fit.

I also wondered about the difference in commission. How is that unfairly attributed? I'm not disputing it, but it feels harder to do than a simple salary discrepancy.

Regardless, this seems to have been a good catalyst for you to take positive action and move on. When I read your OP I was going to say that I thought your manager had done you a deliberate favour and was prompting you to negotiate a raise. But when I saw she is Gratitude Manager I just thought you need to get out... Good luck OP!

I forgot to update that thread. The journals are no more. No-one was taking it seriously and manager picked up on it. Inspired by the thread, some of my colleagues and I started playing a game where we expressed gratitude related to songs by a specific singer each week (Whitney Houston week “I’m grateful for my Zumba classes and now I wanna dance with somebody”). It became quite silly in the end and she realised what was going on. I suspect she’s still angry about it!

There have been so many initiatives from her to ‘improve mental health’ and it’s draining, not least because she is quite toxic so we struggle to reconcile her commitment to ‘Mental Health first aid’ with some of her underhand practices. The last initiative was everyone had to go on a walk before our weekly meetings, take a picture of something inspiring and share it with the team with a caption. I mean, who has time for this…

This

It might not have been jane’s pay. Your boss could have clicked on anyone’s file by mistake.

i don’t know about your company, but at ours, managers are specifically given a mix of employees at various levels because it distributes the workload. Senior employees are very different to manage than junior. Someone with 20 years more experience might easily be making 80k more.

This

I’ve negotiated pay on the basis of finding out someone earnt more than me. I did more hours too.

use it to negotiate more

My DH works in IT and this is standard practice. I was shocked because in public sector there are payscales but in private you can negotiate based on experience and reputation. At one point my DH was earning more than his manager but that was down to length of service and him negotiating rises.
You can negotiate pay, but for my DH, everytime he was planning to leave he was offered a pay rise or bonus but he is highly skilled, works long hours and on-call and knows the business inside out.

£80,000 more? Wow what
job is this for?!

What sort of place is this?

Hi Eastie77Returns, I am so sorry this happened to you. I am aghast that this boss did it, appalled in fact. OK I'm old, maybe too old for MN but hope I can say something helpful. I do care a lot!
I read all your replies and as many of others as I could. Some things struck me:
Yes she did show you this on purpose imho.

BUT, was the salary really true?
The more I learned about her bullying, the nastiness of it, to the point of people leaving or being long-term sick... well, I think she made up that document, or rather she adjusted the pay figure on it.
I think looking for a decent place to work is essential, but I would not just leave, I'd start by making a complaint about her showing you the document revealing a co-worker's salary and telling you she 'had just been with Jane' so it would naturally make you think it was Jane's. This truly is something I, from my background where I held a senior position, would regard as a disciplinary matter. That, coupled with knowing I had a team leader/boss person in my department who was making people mentally ill, would want me to take action, fast. Her being 'mental-health 1st aider' does not surprise me. It's just another way for her to get power.
As I read your replies I became more and more agonised by how badly this Company was treating an obviously hard-working, conscientious, skilful, amiable and gracious girl. I simply couldn't understand the business about the senior execs who made no response when you reached out yet invited Jane to coffee and weekend brunch. I thought about my daughter, when her boss, male, had clearly taken a dislike to her because she was so unlike her predecessor who had moved to a different part of the organisation so my daughter knew her and understood what it was about. This girl used to lap up the boss's sexy chat-up lines and giggle and flirt with him to his delight. My daughter hates men like that. She has perfect manners, and is very friendly and popular with her work-mates. But she does not flirt, not with the boss or anyone. So this boss did all he could to get rid of her. It ended with a court case. He and his Company, lost.
But I began to think your situation has a different aspect. There you are, such a sweet thoughtful person, it comes across here. What's wrong with those people where you work? I was in pain when I read that the other 5 went to the manager's hen night and wedding and you were left out. For someone reading this from the outside, this sounds simply callous. I really am near to tears.

Then, and only when you reached your 14th post, and couched very carefully, you made one comment, I think you probably thought hard about whether to say it, but, because of my background, I think this is the crux. Bless you, you eventually said, "My face doesn’t fit at this company which I’m actually not taking personally, I think it’s a cultural (mis)fit."
I am so sorry! I really am. It should never be like this. In IT of all places!! (Maybe that was a daft comment but I worked closely with the IT department). So that is it. What dreadful people they are!
You do know, don't you, that if you are being treated differently, by which I mean badly, not paid anything like as much, not given encouragement, not included in the group with whom you work, and all three are strongly explained here, and you are the only one with a different cultural background, that is discrimination and against the law? Do you have anyone around you, at home or among your family friends, who can give you advice? You at least deserve counselling. But you need legal advice. I know you won't want to do this, but at least get the information, please. It has to be stopped. I am so very sorry this has happened. It should never happen. Nobody should be left out, discriminated against, given a vastly lower salary, not given the same support from the bosses.... not for any reason. But to be made to feel a "cultural (mis)fit"! That is unforgivable! It is inexcusable. The ethos of this Company is toxic.

Dear Eastie77, Please get some support about this. I can understand you might not want to face taking legal proceedings against these people, or rather this company, but there are Charity organisations that can support you for being bullied at work and there are specific charities to help you with racial abuse. If I have got this wrong, I apologise. But if this is the case, as a white old lady, I am heart broken.

God bless you. Please take care of yourself. Please don't let them get away with this. You have many friends here. Sending you much love, Elle.

I think you're making a massive assumption that this was Jane's salary.

It could have been anyone's.

And even if was, she earned much more commission than you.

I work in sales. In our company, the more you sell and the more profit you make, the more your base salary is increased.

So although I work in a team of over 10 people that all do exactly the same job, we are all on different base salaries.

You say Jane was recently promoted, so that would presumably account for some of the discrepancy in pay, and I assume she would have an extra level of responsibility. Then there is the issue of commission, and hers might be a higher figure than yours. However, it does sound an awful lot more.

As others have said, doesn't this put you in an ideal position to ask for a better pay rise? I wouldn't expect it to be £30,000 more though.

It might have been done deliberately - either to do you a favour or to "nudge" you out, but I suppose it is possible that a momentary lapse of concentration could lead to a mistake like this.

"Hmmm. How can I tell Eastie77Returns that she could be earning more? I guess I could just say that and give a rough indication of how much more she could get. OR! I could put one of her colleagues' personal information on a screen, damage my reputation of being meticulous, open up myself to potential repercussions for breaching data security, and risk Eastie not reading it or understanding what I'm revealing. Yes, that sounds the better plan"

80k more? You definitely don’t do the same job or she is related to someone high up in the company

Is commission based on percentage of salary or a set percentage?