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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Bloody parking charge

203 replies

RoseWrites · 26/01/2023 14:41

I went to a car park and my 4 year old went batshit on the way in. I quickly parked and got her out and calmed her down. I looked at the car, and one wheel was on the white line. Tbh I couldn't be bothered with putting DD back and reparking so I just dashed into the shop. Came out 5 minutes later and found a ticket on my car for £100.
I got home and appealed it but got a standard letter back saying appeal has been denied, but with no rationale. I assume they send the same wording to everyone. There's no way of contacting them.
My options are pay for the fine now or appeal to the ombudsman but run the risk of paying more if that's denied.
If it's any use, it's Excel parking. And the car park is in cramlington.
Would you appeal or just (begrudgingly) pay?

OP posts:
Patineur · 27/01/2023 14:46

BabyOnBoard90 · 27/01/2023 14:43

Doesn't make it enforceable. You can admit to owning a car and parking, and still have grounds to dispute a parking charge by private company.

Show quote history

What grounds?

Catnary · 27/01/2023 14:47

BabyOnBoard90 · 27/01/2023 14:19

I disagree. Hence my view

Show quote history

Why don’t you do something properly helpful then, and explain the actual grounds on which your claim was dismissed? Right now you seem to be suggesting that the reason given was that “Euro Car Parks is a private parking company”.

Here’s the link to the Supreme Court judgment which went in favour of Parking Eye, a private parking company.

www.supremecourt.uk/cases/uksc-2015-0116.html

So, the judge in your case can’t possibly have said “You don’t have to pay because they are private”.

What he might have said is one of the following:

  1. they did not follow correct court procedure when bringing the claim
  2. You were not the correct defendant
  3. the things you did were not prohibited by Euro Car Parks’ Rules
  4. The rules were not clearly displayed.
  5. The evidence was not clear enough for them to prove their case in the balance of probabilities.

I’ve even done the words for you so you just have to pick a number. Go on, share the actual helpful reason. Because OP is not going to be able to follow in your trailblazing footsteps by saying “But they are a private company, I rest my case”.

Patineur · 27/01/2023 14:51

OP, did you appeal to POPLA or the Independent Appeals Service?

If so, and they rejected your appeal, that would be taken into account against you in any court claim.

BabyOnBoard90 · 27/01/2023 14:52

TheBestTeam · 27/01/2023 14:43

@BabyOnBoard90
I'm ignoring the arguing but I'm genuinely curious why your parking fines were dismissed? I presume you know the reason. There are times when you can be fairly confident of successfully getting a private parking charge dismissed such as it being issued incorrectly but surely you can understand that parking outside the lines isn't going to be a good enough reason to get a parking charge dismissed.

I'm happy to not argue and discuss.

I actually wasn't confident I would win, but I was being asked to pay an exorbitant amount (over 1K) that I may as well have taken it to court. If I won then hurray, if I lost then I put off paying by 1.5yrs due to slow mechanics of legal system.

Regarding my defense I had a few disputes, to name a few: the quality of the signage and the fact I didn't knowingly enter a contract by parking, and also whether the company had legal authority/ permission from landowner to issue PCNs and monies on their behalf.

It was an intimidating process and challenging, and I'm certainly not a lawyer - but I learned a lot and saved money

Catspyjamas17 · 27/01/2023 14:52

In the meantime, in the real world, if OP had some sort of ground for defending we can perhaps assume she might have mentioned it?

I don't think most people would have that level of knowledge without doing some research. Most people just pay up regardless of the validity of the ticket, as they are frightened by sem-official looking letters. which is of course what these absolute scum of the earth parking companies rely on.

I got a ticket and my company appeal failed in the first instance even though I could show in bank records that I had paid for a ticket. I won the POPLA appeal on a technicality, not because they weren't correct to have given a ticket in the first place as I had already bought a ticket on their app, but that they hadn't provided the right information to the registered keeper.

I'm a solicitor and didn't have that information to hand. I just knew the ticket was bollocks because I'd paid, and because the company issuing them are appalling and because lots of other people had dubious penalty notices from that car park. I wouldn't have paid even if I lost the appeal, and they could take me to court and fucking whistle for the fine. I'd have embarrassed the arse off them if it had gone that far.

BabyOnBoard90 · 27/01/2023 14:59

Catnary · 27/01/2023 14:47

Why don’t you do something properly helpful then, and explain the actual grounds on which your claim was dismissed? Right now you seem to be suggesting that the reason given was that “Euro Car Parks is a private parking company”.

Here’s the link to the Supreme Court judgment which went in favour of Parking Eye, a private parking company.

www.supremecourt.uk/cases/uksc-2015-0116.html

So, the judge in your case can’t possibly have said “You don’t have to pay because they are private”.

What he might have said is one of the following:

  1. they did not follow correct court procedure when bringing the claim
  2. You were not the correct defendant
  3. the things you did were not prohibited by Euro Car Parks’ Rules
  4. The rules were not clearly displayed.
  5. The evidence was not clear enough for them to prove their case in the balance of probabilities.

I’ve even done the words for you so you just have to pick a number. Go on, share the actual helpful reason. Because OP is not going to be able to follow in your trailblazing footsteps by saying “But they are a private company, I rest my case”.

Show quote history

OP hasn't posted in ages, its on him/her to share details from which accurate advice can be drawn from.

WindscreenWipe · 27/01/2023 15:01

BabyOnBoard90 · 27/01/2023 14:52

I'm happy to not argue and discuss.

I actually wasn't confident I would win, but I was being asked to pay an exorbitant amount (over 1K) that I may as well have taken it to court. If I won then hurray, if I lost then I put off paying by 1.5yrs due to slow mechanics of legal system.

Regarding my defense I had a few disputes, to name a few: the quality of the signage and the fact I didn't knowingly enter a contract by parking, and also whether the company had legal authority/ permission from landowner to issue PCNs and monies on their behalf.

It was an intimidating process and challenging, and I'm certainly not a lawyer - but I learned a lot and saved money

Show quote history

None of those appear to apply to the OP… so why do you think she’ll “definitely” win?

BabyOnBoard90 · 27/01/2023 15:04

WindscreenWipe · 27/01/2023 15:01

None of those appear to apply to the OP… so why do you think she’ll “definitely” win?

Show quote history

I don't even think it will get to court if she chosen to dispute it.

I had multiple defense points, and nothing OP has posted suggests they couldn't apply here.

Catnary · 27/01/2023 15:04

BabyOnBoard90 · 27/01/2023 14:59

OP hasn't posted in ages, its on him/her to share details from which accurate advice can be drawn from.

Show quote history

Nope, it doesn’t work that way here because you are not her solicitor, you are a person offering advice on a forum based on your experience. So you say what your experience was and then OP (or others in similar situations) can take what they need from your information.

Catnary · 27/01/2023 15:05

BabyOnBoard90 · 27/01/2023 15:04

I don't even think it will get to court if she chosen to dispute it.

I had multiple defense points, and nothing OP has posted suggests they couldn't apply here.

Show quote history

But your claim did get to Court…

BabyOnBoard90 · 27/01/2023 15:07

Catnary · 27/01/2023 15:04

Nope, it doesn’t work that way here because you are not her solicitor, you are a person offering advice on a forum based on your experience. So you say what your experience was and then OP (or others in similar situations) can take what they need from your information.

Show quote history

Well yes, it's advice based on experiences...

WindscreenWipe · 27/01/2023 15:07

BabyOnBoard90 · 27/01/2023 15:04

I don't even think it will get to court if she chosen to dispute it.

I had multiple defense points, and nothing OP has posted suggests they couldn't apply here.

Show quote history

I get more and more skeptical that you’re posting in good faith with each response.

Patineur · 27/01/2023 15:08

BabyOnBoard90 · 27/01/2023 15:04

I don't even think it will get to court if she chosen to dispute it.

I had multiple defense points, and nothing OP has posted suggests they couldn't apply here.

Show quote history

Nothing in her posts suggests they could, either. She has already lost one appeal.

BabyOnBoard90 · 27/01/2023 15:09

Catnary · 27/01/2023 15:05

But your claim did get to Court…

Show quote history

Because, as previously outlined, the amount pursued was several hundred pounds higher.

BabyOnBoard90 · 27/01/2023 15:11

WindscreenWipe · 27/01/2023 15:07

I get more and more skeptical that you’re posting in good faith with each response.

Show quote history

Don't really care tbf. It's my view, OP can do as she pleases.

It's forum members who are choosing to debate my posts. OP hasn't even made a single reply.

BabyOnBoard90 · 27/01/2023 15:13

Patineur · 27/01/2023 15:08

Nothing in her posts suggests they could, either. She has already lost one appeal.

Show quote history

Losing an appeal to the same company issuing a bogus parking charge does not make the charge enforceable.

I don't know how many other ways this point can be said. Pay OPs fine if you feel so strongly about it.

TheBestTeam · 27/01/2023 15:38

@BabyOnBoard90
Regarding my defense I had a few disputes, to name a few: the quality of the signage and the fact I didn't knowingly enter a contract by parking, and also whether the company had legal authority/ permission from landowner to issue PCNs and monies on their behalf

Thanks for answering my question. Those seem like good reason to appeal a private parking charge and that must have been very satisfying when the court agreed!

To be fair to other posters though the OP is probably not going to be able to get her case dismissed. It would be really surprising if any of those circumstances would apply to a shopping centre type of car park.

BabyOnBoard90 · 27/01/2023 15:53

TheBestTeam · 27/01/2023 15:38

@BabyOnBoard90
Regarding my defense I had a few disputes, to name a few: the quality of the signage and the fact I didn't knowingly enter a contract by parking, and also whether the company had legal authority/ permission from landowner to issue PCNs and monies on their behalf

Thanks for answering my question. Those seem like good reason to appeal a private parking charge and that must have been very satisfying when the court agreed!

To be fair to other posters though the OP is probably not going to be able to get her case dismissed. It would be really surprising if any of those circumstances would apply to a shopping centre type of car park.

You'd be surprised, even supermarket tend to lease the land and along with assigned parking company, so disputes do happen.

That said, most companies write off the fine if it's as small as OPs as it would cost more than double just to take to court. They're usually trying their luck as it costs £1 to send letters in the off chance that the persons pays, giving a great return.

Spending hundreds in legal fees to pursue £100 doesn't. That said there one company that I would pay -I think someone mentioned earlier -parkingeye

TheBestTeam · 27/01/2023 16:21

You'd be surprised, even supermarket tend to lease the land and along with assigned parking company, so disputes do happen.

No one is disputing the fact that it can be possible to dispute a private parking charge. It was your advice that the OP definitely does not at have to pay that everyone has been laughing at disagreeing with.

It's certainly worth the OP double checking that there is no way she can find a defence but it's really silly to suggest she simply doesn't have to pay.

Catnary · 27/01/2023 16:27

OP: I killed a man yesterday, will I be convicted of murder?
BabyonBoard90: A man you say? No, you definitely won’t be convicted. I killed a man last year but it went to trial and I wasn’t convicted.

Anon778833 · 27/01/2023 17:25

Catnary · 27/01/2023 16:27

OP: I killed a man yesterday, will I be convicted of murder?
BabyonBoard90: A man you say? No, you definitely won’t be convicted. I killed a man last year but it went to trial and I wasn’t convicted.

Top marks for the most ridiculous comparison ever 😂

ThisGirlNever · 27/01/2023 18:25

turquoisegem · 27/01/2023 10:51

I think in this instance you just have to pay it but it does make me angry when you read things like that elderly gentleman who had innocently put in a (o) instead of (0) when entering his number plate and his appeal was rejected just because technically they could still have him for that.

They avoid ambiguous symbols on number plates to avoid these kinds or issues - e.g. there never used to be an 'O reg' because an 'O' was too similar to a zero.

Given that it is a recognised issue for number plates, I'd have thought an appeal would be winnable.

EddyF · 27/01/2023 21:56

Chickenly · 27/01/2023 12:10

I’m an actual lawyer 😂All your shitty piece of paper says is that you didn’t have to pay, not that no one has to pay private parking fines.

Show quote history

Anybody can be anything on the net/this site. You clearly don’t sound like a lawyer because plenty of people have successfully not had to pay private parking tickets. They RELY on you to be so bogged down with life, you pay up to make the problem go away until the next time. Over and over again. @BabyOnBoard90 is absolutely correct and now she’s shown proof, you suddenly are a lawyer on some parenting site. Yawn.

TheBestTeam · 27/01/2023 22:06

@ThisGirlNever

@turquoisegem
I think in this instance you just have to pay it but it does make me angry when you read things like that elderly gentleman who had innocently put in a (o) instead of (0) when entering his number plate and his appeal was rejected just because technically they could still have him for that.

They avoid ambiguous symbols on number plates to avoid these kinds or issues - e.g. there never used to be an 'O reg' because an 'O' was too similar to a zero

Given that it is a recognised issue for number plates, I'd have thought an appeal would be winnable

The way parking companies deal with keying in errors have changed in the last year or so. If it's a keying in mistake then you should be fine. Here is a quote from MoneySavingExpert on this ( LINK HERE
Motorists who enter the wrong number-plate details when paying for private parking tickets will in many cases no longer be 'fined' the full amount, after the UK's largest parking trade body updated its code of practice. But you'll still need to appeal to get the charge cancelled and may still have to pay a reduced charge for "major" mistakes.

Patineur · 27/01/2023 22:22

BabyOnBoard90 · 27/01/2023 15:13

Losing an appeal to the same company issuing a bogus parking charge does not make the charge enforceable.

I don't know how many other ways this point can be said. Pay OPs fine if you feel so strongly about it.

Show quote history

No, of course it doesn't, I didn't claim it did. But OP doesn't claim she appealed to the same company - she may have appealed to POPLA or similar. Before you say it, yes, I know that doesn't make it enforceable either, but it means that many of the scenarios you suggest are less likely to apply and weakens her chances of defending any claim.