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AIBU?

Teachers - well paid, long holidays, gold-plated pension

521 replies

noblegiraffe · 26/01/2023 01:00

I keep seeing this being trotted out as a reason to give teachers yet another real-terms pay cut.

Those who are going on about how great teachers have it, why have we got so many vacancies? Why is there such a shortage of teachers? It is really starting to bite in schools. My school has increased class sizes in maths and English, there are kids who have had a series of different supply teachers in core subjects since September, and A-level students who have had to teach themselves the syllabus in Y13 because they had no teacher at all. GCSE students have complained about their teacher not knowing what they are teaching because they've been roped in from another subject. We used to try to protect exam classes, but can't anymore.

Teaching vacancies are up. But the worst thing is that teacher trainees numbers have plummeted. The government has missed its recruitment targets for years, but the situation is getting much worse. Teacher recruitment for next year where schools generally compete for local trainees, which usually starts about now, will be really difficult and there will be lots more schools with unfilled spaces in September. Maths trainee numbers where I am are genuinely horrifying.

So, given the assertion that the private sector (the "real world") has it much worse and that teachers have a pretty cushy job with lots of perks, why isn't the private sector seeing a mass exodus into teaching?

Is it maybe not that cushy after all? Maybe the government actually needs to do something about it? Maybe those who think that a 5% rise is 'fair' need to have a rethink if they want their kids to actually have a teacher?

getintoteaching.education.gov.uk

Teachers - well paid, long holidays, gold-plated pension
Teachers - well paid, long holidays, gold-plated pension
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Am I being unreasonable?

AIBU

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Twillow · 26/01/2023 01:05

I left for a minimum wage job! I'm much happier. I miss some aspects (the actual children) but the pay/holidays/pension weren't worth the constant demoralisation from each successive change of head/government telling people who'd been doing the job for years that they'd been 'doing it all wrong'. And some of the damn fool parents 😣

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Arrrrrrragghhh · 26/01/2023 01:06

Is there a shortage of teachers or are the vacancies due to schools not filling them to save on budgets?

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echt · 26/01/2023 01:10

Arrrrrrragghhh · 26/01/2023 01:06

Is there a shortage of teachers or are the vacancies due to schools not filling them to save on budgets?

If a post disappears for budgetary issues, then there is no shortage (though of course there is in reality when the work that needs to be done still needs to be done and gets foisted on others).

The shortage is about inability to fill advertised posts.

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IMissThe80s · 26/01/2023 01:13

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noblegiraffe · 26/01/2023 01:15

Arrrrrrragghhh · 26/01/2023 01:06

Is there a shortage of teachers or are the vacancies due to schools not filling them to save on budgets?

The vacancies are job adverts. Advertising in the Autumn term is really bad. It generally means you couldn't fill a post for September or the person you recruited has fallen through, and it's really hard to recruit then. The trainees and everyone else looking for jobs will normally have gone for a September start.

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MyBloodyMaryneedsmoreTabasco · 26/01/2023 01:18

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IMissThe80s · 26/01/2023 01:20

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noblegiraffe · 26/01/2023 01:21

Keep bumping my thread, thanks 👍

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Cheekymaw · 26/01/2023 01:26

I have teachers as close family. They are dedicated and spent alot of those hols planning for lessons. They work till late at night every night. Deserve a big rise. The Tories have drained our education system, health care and public services and the strikes are caused by them. I support the teachers.( Couldn't pay me enough to do their job btw !)

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Notwavingbutsignalling · 26/01/2023 01:27

@IMissThe80s

what makes you think that?

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Silentmama · 26/01/2023 01:36

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

How long have you been teaching for @IMissThe80s ? How many schools have you worked in? What real life experience has led to this view?

Teaching involves so many skills, regardless of how 'well paid' staff are - the schools are underfunded - you know the big rise in costs of basic heating and electricity have not resulted in a budget increase - the increase in teacher pay has not resulted in a budget increase either... There is only so far a budget can be squeezed!

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Eyerollcentral · 26/01/2023 01:37

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

What’s a proper job? What skills are required?

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Cailleachian · 26/01/2023 01:46

Burnout is a real thing in teaching.

I've seen great teachers just get overwhelmed and break, then stay in post for years, bumbling through their burnout, while the less dedicated ones are more likely to get out before the burnout hits.

Its notable the number of supply teachers there are just now. All the support services appear to be removed, as well as all the fun things. There was no xmas party, not so many sports clubs or lunchtime clubs, no trips and even reports are very tickboxy.

I think the whole method by which we educate children needs a radical overhaul. Hubs where children can go for different things, less focus on achievement and more focus on being happy, content and informed.

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BlueMediterranean · 26/01/2023 01:54

Last year we got like 10-11 PGCE students at my school in different subjects and I think none of them are teaching because it's too much work.

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Winter2020 · 26/01/2023 02:01

My husband is a primary school teacher. I don’t think pay is the problem for recruitment and retention - I think it is the awful workload. From what I see teachers have endless workload of planning - 5 different levels etc, marking “marking policies”, evaluation, continual pressure to hit value added targets for progression even if the child’s homelife is in meltdown for example, there is continual assessment of teachers that have been successful teachers for years, continually changing initiatives….

My husband is part time. When he was full time we had no family life except the holidays and I never want him to go full time again. I don’t know how anyone parents and is a full time teacher. Hats off to them but there is obviously (in my mind) not enough people able or willing to either manage the job alongside their life or give up their term time home life for the job.

Help teachers by banning the micro management and continual assessment of teachers that have proven able over many years.

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DealOrNoelsDeal · 26/01/2023 02:06

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🤣🤣🤣

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DaisyCornflowerBlue · 26/01/2023 02:06

I have a friend who was once a dedicated Reception/Y1 teacher but gave it up because she was spending all her time preparing lessons and none with her growing family. Oh, and the politics. And the parents. And the "executive Head". She's now a lunchtime supervisor, and loves it.

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Yoppi · 26/01/2023 02:08

I'm with you, OP. By the time teachers get their pension, the age will be up to 80 and people will be dying before then due to stress. Apparently they all earn £40k? Wish my brother knew where he could be earning that and maybe he'd reconcile the abuse which chips away at him wanting to do the job. My friend was telling me that just last week an NQT quit in the middle of the day and has refused to return which is not the first time in recent months.

People just don't get it, you don't mess with your child's education. They're happy to give them little token Christmas gifts as appreciation but can't appreciate they need paying properly for all they do.

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Everyonehasavoice · 26/01/2023 02:29

Private sector worker here
Plus some instrumental lessons at schools but still self employed in that

The reason private sector workers don’t teach is because they didn’t chose to go into that job and they are prepared to put up with lower wage rises, less perks etc.
Many, many also do not have unions. So if they asked for a rise, theyd just be told no and have to move jobs. Basically they’re on their own.

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k1233 · 26/01/2023 02:47

What's the average teachers salary? I don't understand why it's not treated like a standard job. 4weeks leave per year, 9-5 hours. Non pupil time between semesters is used for planning, hours outside of class time used for marking.

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smooththecat · 26/01/2023 02:47

Came on here to check how long it would take for a ‘teachers are a bunch of work shy thickos’ post. 5 posts in. It’s getting worse. I’ve worked in education (yes, I have left). I’ve worked in industry. In most sectors there are a bunch of bludgers doing the worst; there are low cell counts in the brain department - that’s life. But there are not multiple posts online about what a bunch of dilberts accountants are or what a bunch of illiterates lawyers are, yet unfortunately I’ve met lots of both. This is a UK specific thing. It’s part of what’s holding the country back. Examine your thinking. Where do you think these people ending up in other professions who are oh so much better than anyone who teaches are ultimately coming from? From school? From education? Are they growing on trees? Why do you hate education so much over there in the UK?

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NowDoYouBelieveMe · 26/01/2023 02:48

Everyonehasavoice · 26/01/2023 02:29

Private sector worker here
Plus some instrumental lessons at schools but still self employed in that

The reason private sector workers don’t teach is because they didn’t chose to go into that job and they are prepared to put up with lower wage rises, less perks etc.
Many, many also do not have unions. So if they asked for a rise, theyd just be told no and have to move jobs. Basically they’re on their own.

Sounds like we need more unions then, for all sectors, and to strengthen workers right to union membership.

Impressed to see the Amazon workers striking today. If they can do it...

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echt · 26/01/2023 03:02

k1233 · 26/01/2023 02:47

What's the average teachers salary? I don't understand why it's not treated like a standard job. 4weeks leave per year, 9-5 hours. Non pupil time between semesters is used for planning, hours outside of class time used for marking.

If teachers worked 9-5, no marking or prep would get done on time. It would effectively be a work to rule. How many hours do you think teachers have outside the teaching? Very few I assure you.

I've taken industrial action in the past to do just this - assessments not marked for weeks as staff walked at the end of the day. No reports done that semester.

By the way, if UK teachers worked a strict 9-5, they'd be over their allotted hours before the end of the academic year.

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echt · 26/01/2023 03:15

Should have said more. Average teachers salaries aren't helpful as you have to lob SLT into the mix, which distorts it.

Try this and you'll see why average doesn't work easily:

www.nasuwt.org.uk/advice/pay-pensions/pay-scales/england-pay-scales.html#PayScales

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Scottishskifun · 26/01/2023 03:32

Teachers do work hard but so do their unions!
Generally on the whole they have had payrises where a lot of public sector workers have either been on a pay freeze or a much lower percentage increase. Between 5-8% increase is way above other public sectors and that's just 1 year so whilst I know teachers work hard in comparison to other areas they are doing very well on pay increases.

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