Teachers - well paid, long holidays, gold-plated pension

[noblegiraffe]

I keep seeing this being trotted out as a reason to give teachers yet another real-terms pay cut.

Those who are going on about how great teachers have it, why have we got so many vacancies? Why is there such a shortage of teachers? It is really starting to bite in schools. My school has increased class sizes in maths and English, there are kids who have had a series of different supply teachers in core subjects since September, and A-level students who have had to teach themselves the syllabus in Y13 because they had no teacher at all. GCSE students have complained about their teacher not knowing what they are teaching because they've been roped in from another subject. We used to try to protect exam classes, but can't anymore.

Teaching vacancies are up. But the worst thing is that teacher trainees numbers have plummeted. The government has missed its recruitment targets for years, but the situation is getting much worse. Teacher recruitment for next year where schools generally compete for local trainees, which usually starts about now, will be really difficult and there will be lots more schools with unfilled spaces in September. Maths trainee numbers where I am are genuinely horrifying.

So, given the assertion that the private sector (the "real world") has it much worse and that teachers have a pretty cushy job with lots of perks, why isn't the private sector seeing a mass exodus into teaching?

Is it maybe not that cushy after all? Maybe the government actually needs to do something about it? Maybe those who think that a 5% rise is 'fair' need to have a rethink if they want their kids to actually have a teacher?

getintoteaching.education.gov.uk

I am wondering about this too.

But I also think it's about stretching a thin budget to go further!

My DD works in a primary school. They have teaching assistants that are trained "on the job" as teachers. They will receive a fraction of the salary of an fully qualified teacher. Naturally they are allowed to do a qualified teachers workload.

I think the state of schools in this country is shocking. It's almost like the government want a large part of the population to be illiterate.

What are you wittering on about?

@Polkadotties still have to plan for the next day once I get home too.

I have been a TA for years- I am a qualified teacher and there is no way on Earth I would go back to it now. I see how miserable and overworked the teachers at my school are. Relentless pressure from SLT who in turn have targets to meet. Rigid, boring curriculum. We no cleaners, no caretaker so have to do that too. The roofs are leaking- the toilets often back up.
man’s this weird idea that we get paid for 13 weeks holiday.

Teachers have standard holiday pay like everyone else. If you wanted them to to work extra in the school holidays where would the money come from? We are paid for the days the school is open and then our holiday allowance on top. The pay is then eeked out evenly over the year.

@Petros9 teacher workloads are not getting heavier is a sweeping statement to make, and one I'm not sure you're even entitled to make for your own school (as you're SLT not a classroom teacher) and certainly not for other teachers. I've taught for the same length of time as you and my workload has absolutely increased, especially in the last ten years. Retiring before 60 ime is more a case of limping off when you can't take it any more, often to other jobs. With the changes to pensions there won't be many retiring 10 years early.

I am broadly supportive of the strikes, although I am not striking myself, but I am going to bring up a few things I’ve noticed over the last few days’ discussions.

I am lucky, I think, in that I have always been paid to scale. To clarify for those who do not know, in days of yore you usually started on M1 (which was around 18000 when I started.) M stands for ‘main scale’ and after six years you ‘went through threshold’ which meant accessing upper pay scales or UPS.

There were always differences in how schools did this. Some would insist upon pages of evidence to prove a teacher was worthy of progression and some (like my then HT) said something like ‘yeah OK then.’

In 2011 (I think) automatic pay parity stopped, so headteachers could in theory ‘promote’ a teacher with two years’ experience to M6, but more likely they could say to an experienced teacher at interview that they would only pay M3 or whatever.

I am fortunate: this has never happened to me.

But here is the thing. We have a few contradictory statements flying around.

The first is that it is impossible to get teachers because of poor pay.

Then, experienced teachers are saying that they aren’t being paid anything like enough - despite the fact that they should be on UPS3 their schools are refusing to pay them that.

One thing that has occurred to me is that if the strikes were to be successful and pay rises implemented, it might turn out to be another pay cut in real terms if more heads refuse to pay to scale.

And surely paying to scale is a bigger problem perhaps than the actual pay? I’ve probably phrased that badly but hopefully people see what I mean.

Maybe some of the vacancies are caused by heads refusing to pay to scale. I’m just musing here but it seems to be a more widespread
problem than I had thought.

at the moment I’m doing 7:30 - 5:30 at school and then maybe an hr every evening and usually do a couple of hours everyday in the holidays, plus I don’t get paid to go in for a week in the summer to redecorate my classroom, so 9-5 and 4 weeks hols would be a reduce in my working hours. It will mean walking in 20mins after the children and not sure when I will do all the extras like the half a day or full day of planning I do every weekend for the following week, though. Can I pick when I take my 4 weeks? Would love to be able to afford to go on holiday so can I take it at any time of the year?

That would equate to around a 40% pay rise so I doubt the government would be up for that. Teachers I paid for 195 days, usually 27.5 hours per week (which is hilarious).

@MrsMurphyIWish repulsive to bring it up? I think it is repulsive to strike for more money in a time of dire financial crisis without any care for those vulnerable children!

You are striking for more money - where do you think that money is coming from?

Thee plus side of those holidays being that teachers would get to take them whenever they wanted, so you might find your dc's class shut for a week while Miss X is off to a destination wedding in Italy, etc.

I'm a TA in a not too bad secondary, on a smidge over minimum wage. I could easily make the jump into teaching but there's not a cat in hell's chance that I would!

@Devastatedyetagain

If you really cared about vulnerable children you'd be supporting the teachers trying to paper the cracks over years of tory underfunding. Do you care about the vulnerable children when you vote tory?

Of all the horrible comments about teachers being disparaging about primary school teachers is probably the worst.

Are people so dim they don’t understand that teaching skills like basic numeracy and literacy is not in itself a basic task?

@Hercisback but it's not one day of inconvenience is it? It is four days.

One day of inconvenience for you may mean a whole lot more to a single parent on a tight budget who loses a day's pay.

You are striking for more money not a better environment for the children.

Ok, I'll take the bait....What do you mean by a "proper" job?

Teaching is a bloody difficult job. Long hours, hardly any breaks during the day, you have to hit targets, be measured on performance, it's exhausting.

Plus you're dealing with the welfare and emotional wellbeing of young people.

I'm not a teacher because I know I couldn't do it. And teachers, along with other public sector professions that are female dominated, such as nurses and social workers, are overworked and underpaid.

We can legally only strike for more money!

I have never seen a teacher on here say "I love my job, it's hard, it's demanding but I love it"
I did upthread.
I’m striking because I don’t think the greed of those in power should mean any hardworking person should find it this hard to get by. That goes for all industries, teaching just happens to be the one I work in.

I left teaching for a lower paid job as I was workimg until midnight most nights then getting up at 5;30 to check and send emails before I got ready for work. It's unsustainable.
The constant scrutiny is unbearable

Staff retention is dreadful

Teachers aren't just striking for pay. They are fighting for better conditions. Which in turn has an impact on the education of every child.

I fully support them

What an unpleasant comment. Only a few comments in and the teacher bashing has started.

There’s this perception that the strike is only about pay. It’s actually a part of the many problems that teachers will be making noise about while on strike. Yes, it’s about pay, but it’s about a pay rise that won’t put the students at a disadvantage!

I work as a TA in a class of 30 children. Of those 30 children, 8 have SEND and 1 is on a reduced timetable with me working 1:1 with them for 2 hours, with it being increased gradually to allow them to cope with the school day. While with this child, the teacher is having to teach the class, while keeping on top of behaviour of 5 children with behavioural difficulties, then having to support 8 children with learning difficulties and hope the rest of the class just “get it”.

I was meant to be supporting the class with her, but am now having to work 1:1 with this child after the need arose because the funding for someone else to do it, or someone else to do my job, is funding the last “pay rise” teachers got. (Hint, the money for the last pay rises isn’t new, it’s being taken from funding for things like SEND). When this child is in all day the children’s interventions to support their development, emotional needs and academic progress will also stop, which will leave them disadvantaged in comparison to other children their age.

When my line manager asks if I’d ever consider going into teaching when I finish my degree in child psychology and child development I have to use all my energy not to scoff.

That’s not strictly true! The ballot was about pay yes but also for the pay rise to be funded. Many teachers feel their pay is good but disagree with rises coming out of already dwindling school budgets, the cuts to which are negatively affecting children.

@VashtaNerada sounds like you are jumping on the bandwagon!! If you genuinely cared about the hardworking person finding it hard to get by, you wouldn't be adding to their financial burden with your actions would you?

@PurpleFlower1983 if that is the case and they are happy with pay they are making a.mockery of their own actions! Where do you all think this money is coming from?

Striking for pay?
Or to change conditions?
Confusing - what is the strike for?
People lose patience and respect for teachers when they strike for pay then illogically claim that is not the reason because the only reason they are allowed to strike is for more money. As to the ‘funding’ (public sector-speak for ‘someone else pay for this’) those posters on here (and the OP seems to have time to start numerous threads on this topic) who think it is easy to magic up more money for them by ‘making cabinet ministers pay more tax’ show an alarming lack of basic numeracy for people who are supposed to be teaching our children any subject.