Teachers - well paid, long holidays, gold-plated pension

[noblegiraffe]

I keep seeing this being trotted out as a reason to give teachers yet another real-terms pay cut.

Those who are going on about how great teachers have it, why have we got so many vacancies? Why is there such a shortage of teachers? It is really starting to bite in schools. My school has increased class sizes in maths and English, there are kids who have had a series of different supply teachers in core subjects since September, and A-level students who have had to teach themselves the syllabus in Y13 because they had no teacher at all. GCSE students have complained about their teacher not knowing what they are teaching because they've been roped in from another subject. We used to try to protect exam classes, but can't anymore.

Teaching vacancies are up. But the worst thing is that teacher trainees numbers have plummeted. The government has missed its recruitment targets for years, but the situation is getting much worse. Teacher recruitment for next year where schools generally compete for local trainees, which usually starts about now, will be really difficult and there will be lots more schools with unfilled spaces in September. Maths trainee numbers where I am are genuinely horrifying.

So, given the assertion that the private sector (the "real world") has it much worse and that teachers have a pretty cushy job with lots of perks, why isn't the private sector seeing a mass exodus into teaching?

Is it maybe not that cushy after all? Maybe the government actually needs to do something about it? Maybe those who think that a 5% rise is 'fair' need to have a rethink if they want their kids to actually have a teacher?

getintoteaching.education.gov.uk

I really feel for teachers. They do such an important job and all the teachers at my child's school are fabulous dedicated workers.

Through covid, they visibly worked so hard, juggling dual teaching for those in class and those at home.

I can see with my own eyes as my children have passed through school how things have changed. They are being asked to do more, but with less resources.

Maybe some earn 40k, but most don't. But, even if they did, I wouldn't have a problem with that. It's not a 9-3.30 job 40 weeks of the year.

As long as the point being made was that the pp was being a goady fuck, I agree with you.

There is a huge shortage.
Can't get enough maths or science or mfl teachers
We have non specialists or supply covering.
Pgce pays £27000 bursary.
Two maths trainees this year at my local uni. That's all even with the incentive
It's not just about the money.

My list of things to do didn't include planning for the next day or dealing with emails.
Couple hours every evening
Oh and it's nice to eat and wash and see my own DC and dh.

@Devastatedyetagain You’re right that losing a day’s pay shouldn’t affect someone that much, and we shouldn’t have jobs where a day’s paid special leave isn’t an option. Thank god I’m in a union and can fight for those types of things. And obviously I’ll not be voting for a government who think that’s acceptable.

Why do you think this? What is teaching if it isn’t a ‘proper job’?!?

I only work as a TA in primary, but I realise the workload of teachers is fantastically high - it’s not just the delivery of lessons, but the planning, marking, data handling, the meetings about pupils with SEN, training, staff meetings (some of which could have been an email), behaviour management, dealing with the small percentage of parents who have no bloody clue…. Etc etc.

teaching staff in my LA have not had a decent pay rise in years, and with inflation have had year on year real terms pay cuts. They deserve a rise and better working conditions.

remember those first few weeks of lockdown when everyone was praising teachers? It would be nice for people to remember how hard it was to get their kids to work….

Striking for a fully funded pay raise improves both pay and the conditions.
What about this do you find hard to understand?

I'm with you @stayathomer.

Teaching is a job I couldn't do. DD had some brilliant, caring and inspirational teachers at school. There were some less inspirational ones as well. Teachers are only human. She benefitted from an excellent education.

I can't imagine how soul destroying standing in front of 30+ disinterested teenagers trying to instill understanding how to do quadratic equations or pythagorus must be.

I don't understand the naysayers on here who think they could do a better job. Either they should take up teaching themselves or pull their children out of school and home educate them.

I only have one negative thing to say about teaching, and I'm sure this is because their hands are tied - I wish more could be done to tackle bullying in schools.

To everyone in the teaching profession - thank you.

Education children/teenagers isn’t a proper worth while job? What is your definition of a proper job or are you just a troll?

I think they need to scrap homework entirely for primary age.
Just tell parents to read to them and with them.
Then there would be no marking.

For secondary kids I'd set homework but make them stay at school to do it under supervision.

Over 10+ years on here I have seen some ill-informed, offensive and downright ignorant comments, but this is the pinnacle.

I have had plenty of "proper jobs" but I couldn't do teaching for five minutes - due in part to this level of ignorance and offensive prejudicial hatred.

@jangolinapitt you know as well as I do that the country is awash with money. The rich keep on getting richer. It's ideology that stops the public sector being funded properly, because rich people don't believe in it, because they don't have to use it. Wake up and smell the coffee.

Actually giving them the cash, @FlakyCroissant ?

Is that even permitted?

As in, you don't genuinely believe that making teachers work 9-5 for 48 weeks of the year would result in them working more hours?

How on earth could the govt afford to pay teachers for this many hours??

Blip you think the only 'marking' is homework? The ignorance on this thread is staggering.

Dsis qualified as a primary teacher when she was 36. She worked full time from 36-61, giving her 25 years teachers pension plus she made AVCs for the last 10 years. Her final role was as deputy head of a rural primary school.

During that time she was assaulted by a father who pinned her to a wall by her throat and it took 5 staff to drag him off.

She's now retired on a salary of £26k.

Liveable, yes. Gold-plated? Hardly.

The stress is huge!

Unruly classes, tons of responsibility but little authority (because there is virtually nothing they can do with misbehaving pupils - the kids don't care and the parents are often aggressive - physically as well as verbally - and rarely support the teaching staff), "sex noises" in the classroom - embarrassing for teachers and many pupils, and on occasion physical assault (my pregnant DIL was forcefully shoved against a doorframe by a teen boy she tried to remonstrate with); my son broke up a physical fight between two girls - one bit him, spat in his face and then accused him of grabbing her boobs (he hadn't, and fortunately the schoolyard CCTV showed he hadn't).

It's like that police programme - "Let's be careful out there".

‘Especially at primary level’ 😄
I’m an early years teacher and one friend was shocked to hear that I get paid the same as the year 6 teacher! Yes what they teach is harder but children are more independent, she freely admits she’d hate to work lower down the school because of how exhausting it is just in a different way to year 6. Sorry, not the point of the thread but this stood out to me. Spend a day in reception and then comment!

Disclosure- four of my family were teachers (last one about 15 years ago, all retired or deceased).

Pay is I think one of several factors. One is unreasonable parents (we could all give examples), probably the first to complain about teacher shortages without realising their behaviour has contributed.

THIS ⬆

I had a 'proper job' for 10 years. Senior post, fantastic salary. Traded it to become a teacher as I felt - and still feel - it's a more rewarding profession for me.

Your post is both condescending and, frankly, a load of bollocks. Many teachers I know are far more professional workers than my past colleagues.

Some of these posts have really got to me.

Married to a teacher who had whatever some ignorant people here say is a 'proper job' for decades before.

He left for work 10 mins ago ( 06:50 am ) like he does every day. He also worked t from 8-10pm last night having got home from school at 6pm. This is normal. He will also work a half day this weekend.

He works in a school for children with serious mental healtproblems ( often children with multiple diagnoses and often from traumatised early years). He loves making a difference to these kids.

He also in the past year has had his finger broken, a chair smashed across his back and lots of verbal / physical abuse.

He doesn't always have all the TAs he needs (!illness and minimal staffing means not enough to go around).

The bile directed at teachers supporting YOUR children is appalling.

I'm normally quite thick skinned on here but it's actually really gutting to see how many people hate teachers

What do you class as a proper job?

FFS how selfish and short-sighted do people have to be to not want great working conditions for teachers. The generation they are nurturing and inspiring and teaching will be the ones developing your vaccines, designing your roads, growing and cooking your food, doing everything else for you when you're too old to do it for yourself. Why would I want a population of adults who were taught by burnt-out teachers in underfunded schools?

My mum was a teacher for years ks1, one of the reasons she left was she found it hard that you had to leave a child in soiled underwear and they could be waiting up to an hour for a parent to cha he them, if they fell over and was crying she wasn't allowed to comfort them etc.. Many red tape things that she didn't like, she left for a minimum wage job and could be be happier, has been for 15 years now. She's been approached a few times to come back into school but just isn't interested anymore