School bus Ethical dilemma

[dramalamma]

I'm genuinely not sure if I'm being unreasonable here or not - ready to be fried if I am!

My primary age kids travel to and from school on the school bus - they only started this year but it's been amazing for me in terms of extra time to work so I really really don't want to stop! The bus is free because of the distance we are from school, and there is a lovely bus monitor and the kids are happy so all good.
Towards the end of last term and since they've been back this term, they've been telling me every couple of days that there haven't been enough seats on the bus (usually on the way home) so the monitor has been making some kids sit more than one child to a seatbelt or several have been standing.

Here's where I might be unreasonable, I've told them that if there aren't enough seats, they have my permission to get off the bus and ask the office to call me and I will come and get them because safety is more important than convenience. I do believe this but also understand that it's going to put some other people out.
So yesterday there weren't enough seats so they, (very politely I'm told), got off the bus and asked for me to be called. Fine, they did what I told them to do, bus monitor understood, office understood, headmaster agreed with what they did and said he'd be calling the bus company himself to make sure they sent a big enough bus from now on.
So today I get another phone call, same situation (plus one of the seats my son sat in had a broken seatbelt) so I went and picked them up, put them in the car then asked the office lady if they'd spoken to the bus company.... apparently not because there are some kids on the bus who live too close to the school to get the bus paid for so basically it's the school's fault there aren't enough seats....
Now I happen to know that the area that these kids are being dropped off in is not a wealthy area and that if they were officially on the bus, they'd have to pay (I have no idea how much), but because they're not officially on the bus, they don't have to pay.
I've inadvertently opened a can of worms cos there is no way I'm backtracking on what I've told the kids to do, but I do understand the school is trying to do something helpful for kids who might struggle to get to school otherwise (they'd be walking but it's about 1.5 miles so only just under the 2 miles where it would be free).
I'm really stuck what to do. I can't pick them up everyday as I won't get enough work done but I also don't feel comfortable leaving them on the bus for up to 40 mins a day without a seat or with a non-working seatbelt (probably more realistic is 10-15 mins as they drop kids off before our stop). I'm pretty hot on vehicle safety so I'm aware I might be taking this too seriously but I really don't think I am. I could speak direct to the bus company but then I'll drop the school in it. I can speak to the head but they're the one who has created the problem and it could result in some kids not being able to take the bus..... but ......safety!! Any better ideas??
WWYD??

It’s a tricky one. How old are they?
They wouldn’t have a seatbelt on a public bus but if they are small primary then I understand as they could fall if the bus jolts and you would be there to protect them on a public bus.

If they’re older, like 10/11 then maybe you are being a bit too serious.

You need to speak to the head, this is a real safety issue.
Children not entitled to the bus is not your problem, the head needs to find a different solution for them.
A formal letter to the governors would go along way I think.

How is this allowed? The bus shouldn't be taking more kids than it is insured for and can safely seat. If the school want to help these kids get home they can pay for a proper bus place. There is now way they should be making kids share seatbelts or stand up FFS. Both the bus company and the school are completely in the wrong and you shouldn't feel bad for highlighting it.

So do I have it right, some of the kids getting the bus aren't technically entitled to the bus because they live too close to the school to qualify, but they're getting on it anyway? And as a result your kids are not getting a safe journey home if they stay on the bus?

Whoever has authorised those kids to take the bus needs to sort it out, either by being firm about who takes the bus and who doesn't, or finding a way to fund a larger bus. I appreciate your dilemma, but your kids safety has to come first. And it's up to the parents of those children to transport their kids to school themsleves.

You must follow this up in writing with the HT and bus company. The bus may not be insured to carry these extra children,
It's fine until there's an accident and then the shit will hit the fan.
Not enough spaces on the bus is not your problem, school will need to find another solution

it is a safety issue - and safety has to come first. Speak to the bus company. Children only a mile and a half from school should be walking, and it wont do them any good at all to get them into the habit of driving tiny distances like this - quite the reverse

youngest is 6 - others are a little older but still primary. I did hold off until the youngest was out of a strapped in car seat but thought they'd be ok in a seatbelt now. The law here (specific part of the UK) is apparently they have to have a seat belt on a school bus and they have to wear it. Totally hear you on the public bus but they are young so wouldn't be on the bus on their own if it wasn't a school bus and there are no poles or anything to hold onto.

The HT needs to sort it out, you haven't created a problem they have. Its illegal and they could get into big trouble if reported formally
No qualms from me for keeping my children safe

How big is the bus and where are you located? Urban buses don't require seatbelts because there is standing room available. Children under 14 are not required to wear seatbelts on buses in the UK.

This needs reporting. Say god forbid an accident did happen. Those other children who are not meant to be on the bus wouldn’t be searched for if they were thrown from the bus. The school are also making the bus company’s insurance void.

What sort of bus is it? I imagine a mini bus if it’s got seatbelts. Someone has dropped the ball letting more children get on than there are seats for but a) the bus company should absolutely not be letting this happen and b) you need to bring it to the attention of someone more senior.

Yes that's right - but it sounds like it's the school's doing and the parents are going along with it rather than the parents initiating it if you see what I mean? The bus company don't seem to know the kids are on it but the bus monitor does (she works for the school). And yes you're right, because of this, my kids are not getting a safe journey home. It's not a bus that's kitted out for standing passengers. It's not always the same bus either, sometimes it's a double decker so it's not everyday. It just happens to have been two days in a row.

Just realised I left out something (sorry for inadvertent drip feed). After school activities start next week so from Monday it's probably not going to be an issue again until the end of term when after schools stop (and of course the first few weeks of next term when the same issue will arise).

I have to raise this don't I? If it's not my kids, it will be someone else's and safety is more important than anything.

It's a small city so there are parts of the journey where the bus could be doing 50 mph. I've been told there are seat belts on all the buses for primary. Sometimes it's a normal single decker bus, sometimes a double decker and occasionally a coach type bus - but never a mini bus - only one bus for the whole school so too many kids for that.

Yeah I think its not your problem, its the schools. If they want to provide a free bus for the children who don't qualify they could either

A) pay for this from the pupil premium if it applys (you said these children are possibly less well off)

B) Tell the children to line up, once the children who are entitled to the bus have got on then any other space can be taken by the other children

C) Fund the service from the school budget.

I'd raise these ideas in your email to the school and ask them to consider. If anything happens from a safety point of view with the current arrangement then the school could get into hot water.

There is no excuse possible for the school condoning, let alone actively encouraging children to be unsafe on a school bus. I’d be horrified to find out this was happening in the school I work in. I would report it and make official complaints to the LA, governors, OFSTED, anyone that would listen basically.

The school are massively failing in their duty to ensure children are as safe as possible.

thank you - I do agree it's their problem to solve - just helpful to have my feelings validated on this!
in reply to your options:
a) no pupil premium in this part of the UK (unfortunately!)
b) that would both involve them acknowledging they've actually created this problem!! also it would mean some of the kids would be left at school when their parents are expecting them home on the bus and most of them are too young to walk that distance on their own.
c) yeah it has to be this one right? If something has to give it has to be this one.

I think I'll go in and have a chat but make it very clear I'm not going to let it lie - I can't just forget I know this now!!

You're absolutely right to raise it and not drop it. The school's been knowingly endangering kids on the bus and getting away with it, if you hadn't flagged it, it wouldn't have come to light and they wouldn't have stopped doing it. It's not just your children anyway, it's any mix of children who don't get on quickly enough to get a belted seat, and then even those who are seated and secured are in danger in the event of a crash if the non-secured children are thrown against them. It's not a risk I'd be comfortable turning a blind eye to.

Difficult ...but the Head needs to know about the situation regarding why this is an issue. Please email him/her and state it clearly. If he/she already knows, he/she is an idiot because the school would be liable for injury claims in the event of an accident - insurance would not cover this. In addition his/her actions are putting children at greater risk. It is a safeguarding issue.It is the Head's responsibility. If it is not sorted out you must follow it up by reporting it to the local authority safeguarding lead.

The issue of the children who should not be on the bus is a separate issue to the children who should be on the bus and the school needs to address that.

I think (as a school finance person) that if the school wants to do this they need to fund it. I'd completely support it coming out of school budget, one of the biggest barriers to learning for disadvantaged students is getting then into school, so for me it's a legitimate use of school funds (and something we do). They can't ask paying parents to subsidise those children and paying families certainly can't be expected to give up their seats.

That said, my children travelled to school on an ordinary service bus and rarely had a seat all the way and no seat belts. I'm not really sure about taking such a strong stance on the safety aspect.

I'm going to make myself sooooo unpopular with the school with this.

There should be a register of who is entitled to be on the bus. Those who aren't, can't get on.
Pretty simple really

Can I ask if that was when your kids were in primary @Bigweekend ? The difficulty with the finance argument is that no-one currently pays for it - it's these few children who shouldn't be there and everyone else is 2 miles away so they get the bus for free. I don't understand it either but I'm told that's how it works!

I’d wonder if maybe a tip off to the council and bus company if you don’t want to own to paper your name with the school.

Whilst trying to help out these other kids, they're putting them at risk. It might "only be 15 mins" but it just takes seconds for something to go wrong. These kids are not safely seated nor legally are the company covered. I can understand the wish of the monitor to help but it's not her decision, her kids, her company or employees. I'm surprised the ht hasn't put a stop to it.

Yes, but not until Yr 5/6, but if you went on a public bus with them at the weekend, for example, they wouldn't have a seat belt or necessarily a seat.

The proble is that no one's paying. If the school want to provide transport for those children it needs to pay.