School bus Ethical dilemma

[dramalamma]

I'm genuinely not sure if I'm being unreasonable here or not - ready to be fried if I am!

My primary age kids travel to and from school on the school bus - they only started this year but it's been amazing for me in terms of extra time to work so I really really don't want to stop! The bus is free because of the distance we are from school, and there is a lovely bus monitor and the kids are happy so all good.
Towards the end of last term and since they've been back this term, they've been telling me every couple of days that there haven't been enough seats on the bus (usually on the way home) so the monitor has been making some kids sit more than one child to a seatbelt or several have been standing.

Here's where I might be unreasonable, I've told them that if there aren't enough seats, they have my permission to get off the bus and ask the office to call me and I will come and get them because safety is more important than convenience. I do believe this but also understand that it's going to put some other people out.
So yesterday there weren't enough seats so they, (very politely I'm told), got off the bus and asked for me to be called. Fine, they did what I told them to do, bus monitor understood, office understood, headmaster agreed with what they did and said he'd be calling the bus company himself to make sure they sent a big enough bus from now on.
So today I get another phone call, same situation (plus one of the seats my son sat in had a broken seatbelt) so I went and picked them up, put them in the car then asked the office lady if they'd spoken to the bus company.... apparently not because there are some kids on the bus who live too close to the school to get the bus paid for so basically it's the school's fault there aren't enough seats....
Now I happen to know that the area that these kids are being dropped off in is not a wealthy area and that if they were officially on the bus, they'd have to pay (I have no idea how much), but because they're not officially on the bus, they don't have to pay.
I've inadvertently opened a can of worms cos there is no way I'm backtracking on what I've told the kids to do, but I do understand the school is trying to do something helpful for kids who might struggle to get to school otherwise (they'd be walking but it's about 1.5 miles so only just under the 2 miles where it would be free).
I'm really stuck what to do. I can't pick them up everyday as I won't get enough work done but I also don't feel comfortable leaving them on the bus for up to 40 mins a day without a seat or with a non-working seatbelt (probably more realistic is 10-15 mins as they drop kids off before our stop). I'm pretty hot on vehicle safety so I'm aware I might be taking this too seriously but I really don't think I am. I could speak direct to the bus company but then I'll drop the school in it. I can speak to the head but they're the one who has created the problem and it could result in some kids not being able to take the bus..... but ......safety!! Any better ideas??
WWYD??

Do you need to point out all the legal, insurance etc issues? Can you not just meet with the head and explain there aren't enough safe usable seats on the bus for your children and ask what they're going to do about it.

It's up to them to explain why there aren't currently and what they're going to do about it. I think until they've had a chance to rectify the situation then you can't go in all guns blazing. It may be that they don't know how many other children are sneaking on the bus too. Or they may have just miscalculated some days particularly if the bus company uses different vehicles with a different number of seats.

Haven’t read all of the replies but have read all of your posts OP - please please please report to LADO. You can Google LADO for your local area - they are the Local Authority Designated Officer and coordinate safeguarding investigations. It is easy to report. The LADO provides support to schools and will liaise with council transport. They will get to the bottom of what is going on, and act appropriately, usually in a highly supportive way.

You have tried to engage with the school; don’t feel bad. They are behaving unethically, breaching good safeguarding practice, and presumably fraud (assuming it is as you believe; the children involved have no legal entitlement). They are also exposing the bus company to the possibility of losing their license, all for no reason at all. If the children are refugees the school will have been given a pot of money; they can set up taxis paid for from this budget if they feel it’s necessary, or set up walking bus initiatives etc.

Ultimately this practice is putting children at massive risk and that is the bigger picture here. I am also concerned - if the school think this is OK, what other practices have they decided to do which is outside of official scope? I would be surprised if this is the only deviance…

The children not entitled to the bus will not be entitled because they live close enough to the school that they can walk.

On our school bus the children who are entitled to get on the bus have passes, the children with passes board first with the driver checking each pass as the child boards. Children without a pass can then board afterwards and take any remaining seats. Should the bus be full, the children left in the queue live close enough to walk anyway.

you are right to make a fuss, this isn't acceptable. in the event of an accident the insurance would be invalid due to the bus being over capacity, and a seatbelt shared with another individual can be more dangerous than no seatbelt at all.

(with guess numbers but principle the same whatever they actually are) the bus company is being paid by the council to transport 38 pupils safely and legally on a 40 seat bus, and the school is choosing to put 43 pupils on that bus jeopardising the safety of all of them. no that is not something that you can just accept.

if after school activities are going to relieve the pressure a bit and bring the bus back into capacity, then the school can still help the not-entitled-to-transport pupils by saying that they can have a spot only on days when after school activities are happening and that they have to make their own arrangements on days with no after school activities.

This.

It's all fine until that one day it isn't.

This sounds like a great, fair solution.
I'd be facinated to know what the people of the pram/bus thread think of this one 🤣

In terms of accessing funds, you could go to the PTFA and request that they make funds available to cover the cost of the additional pupils as it is for the benefit of all bus pupils.
As they're refugees there are probably funds available from organisations to help with covering costs incurred in the course of attending school.

Totally appreciate it's not your problem or responsibility but it might be a way of fixing the problem by presenting the school with solutions.

You are right though, it's not acceptable.

it's these few children who shouldn't be there and everyone else is 2 miles away so they get the bus for free.

Bear in mind that the statutory 2 mile rule only applies up to the age of 8 - after that it becomes 3 miles. How far away from the school are you, OP?

Why does the fact that the children concerned are refugees make you more angry?

I wondered what the relevance of them being refugees was too.

My DC have always got the bus to school and there has never been any seatbelts as public buses are contracted. Equally, there is often some DC standing just as they would on public buses.

I don’t see the big issue here and I think you have caused a big issue by telling your DC to create a public fuss.

Could it be that @dramalamma would expect them to have their transport funded seeing as they are vulnerable children ?
She only knew they didn't have passes before

sorry that was bad syntax! It wasn't the fact that they were refugees that made me angry - it was the whole situation - especially that I had to deal with the conflict! The fact that they are refugees made me feel bad that they might miss out. I was angry that the school had put me in this situation. Two separate things.

Anyhow, I went up to the school this morning and it appears to all be sorted! (sorry for the anticlimax!) The SLT had known there were kids that shouldn't be there but not that it was making others stand - they apparently had a crisis meeting last night and agreed there will be no standing passengers from today - they've arranged something else for any excess passengers and have called a governers meeting to discuss how to get a bigger bus every day in future. To be honest in the end I think they were quite glad it had been brought to a head and they had a reason to get it all sorted. And I'm confident there won't be any more standing. thank you all for your help - it really helped to know I wasn't overreacting.

This is a huge health and safety issue.

The bus monitor could face a £20 000 fine for breaching health and safety law. Maybe they need to be told that.

I can see how this has happened, a couple of children too young to walk are there at pick up with no parent in sight, a parent is phoned and they will be 30 mins to get tot he school so the school sticks the kids on the bus.

Nice one.

This is a massive safety issue, but also if kids are getting on for free are they accounted for? Is there a register with their names on so staff can keep track of them? If not, children are on a school bus without being tracked and could end up anywhere

This is incredibly risky and stupid of the school to allow or facilitate. If a child standing was injured then the school may well be opening themselves up to a claim.

I know you'll be unpopular but the over crowding is not your concern. I'd put it in writing to the head and the governers as well as the council and the bus company. They are all completely muppets for allowing this to take place.

Anticlimax in this case is welcome!

You Need to inform headmaster and get in touch with school governors,

Also. a. Local councillor. Could also help too,
You can find a. List of them through councillors hub place or on Internet website

Local MP of whichever political persuasion could be useful if all other avenues being exhausted and no headaway in right. Direction,A.s.A.p (A soon as possible.

Thank you for the update OP. Hopefully issue resolved.

I found this on the DFE government website

"46. The Public Service Vehicles (Carrying Capacity) Regulations 1984 allow the option of three children under the age of 14 to occupy a bench seat designed for two adults on a service bus. Modern bus designs and seat belt requirements are reducing the circumstances in which this practice can be adopted and in the opinion of the Secretary of State, local authorities making arrangements for home to school travel should only make use of this concession on an exceptional basis

So it looks as though they are technically within their rights