School bus Ethical dilemma

[dramalamma]

I'm genuinely not sure if I'm being unreasonable here or not - ready to be fried if I am!

My primary age kids travel to and from school on the school bus - they only started this year but it's been amazing for me in terms of extra time to work so I really really don't want to stop! The bus is free because of the distance we are from school, and there is a lovely bus monitor and the kids are happy so all good.
Towards the end of last term and since they've been back this term, they've been telling me every couple of days that there haven't been enough seats on the bus (usually on the way home) so the monitor has been making some kids sit more than one child to a seatbelt or several have been standing.

Here's where I might be unreasonable, I've told them that if there aren't enough seats, they have my permission to get off the bus and ask the office to call me and I will come and get them because safety is more important than convenience. I do believe this but also understand that it's going to put some other people out.
So yesterday there weren't enough seats so they, (very politely I'm told), got off the bus and asked for me to be called. Fine, they did what I told them to do, bus monitor understood, office understood, headmaster agreed with what they did and said he'd be calling the bus company himself to make sure they sent a big enough bus from now on.
So today I get another phone call, same situation (plus one of the seats my son sat in had a broken seatbelt) so I went and picked them up, put them in the car then asked the office lady if they'd spoken to the bus company.... apparently not because there are some kids on the bus who live too close to the school to get the bus paid for so basically it's the school's fault there aren't enough seats....
Now I happen to know that the area that these kids are being dropped off in is not a wealthy area and that if they were officially on the bus, they'd have to pay (I have no idea how much), but because they're not officially on the bus, they don't have to pay.
I've inadvertently opened a can of worms cos there is no way I'm backtracking on what I've told the kids to do, but I do understand the school is trying to do something helpful for kids who might struggle to get to school otherwise (they'd be walking but it's about 1.5 miles so only just under the 2 miles where it would be free).
I'm really stuck what to do. I can't pick them up everyday as I won't get enough work done but I also don't feel comfortable leaving them on the bus for up to 40 mins a day without a seat or with a non-working seatbelt (probably more realistic is 10-15 mins as they drop kids off before our stop). I'm pretty hot on vehicle safety so I'm aware I might be taking this too seriously but I really don't think I am. I could speak direct to the bus company but then I'll drop the school in it. I can speak to the head but they're the one who has created the problem and it could result in some kids not being able to take the bus..... but ......safety!! Any better ideas??
WWYD??

Apologies if it has been suggested, but why can't the school/local authority who are responsible for providing transport for eligible pupils give out bus passes and have a list?

It's the norm in every secondary school I've worked at to have half a dozen or more busses and we manage to get hundreds of pupils onto the correct busses every day. Staff are on duty, we ask for passes as pupils board and we have a list for those pupils who forget their passes. There's also a more senior member of staff who has overall responsibility for bus duty.

If the school can have a bus monitor who knows the pupils then they need to send a letter to parents stating only eligible children can get the bus, unless the parents have pre-booked and paid for a set on certain days, then tell the children who aren't eligible to get off.

It's fine until there's an accident and then the shit will hit the fan

I came on to say this. You can approach it constructively as a “there must be a way to solve this” type approach. But you can’t compromise safety like that on an ongoing basis. As a one off when some child would have been left in a more unsafe position? Maybe. As a one off. But you can’t accept this as a regular occurrence. And, ultimately, your responsibility has to be to your own kids and their safety, no matter how much sympathy you have for the school or the extra kids.

What they’re doing is wrong on so many levels!! I can’t believe school have (apparently) deliberately allowed this situation to happen. If anything happened while that bus was over capacity then someone would be looking at losing their job and possibly criminal prosecution!!
Please go to school and start making waves.

The bus my kids get to school is a normal bus without seat belts - just normal public buses so I really wouldn't have an issue with it.

Who pays for their seat - that's up to school to enforce.

I think you need to establish they type of bus used and its capacity.

If it's one with official standing space, I don't think you can object to some children having to stand (although still your choice as to whether you use the bus).

If it's more of a coach with everyone expected to sit, I'm amazed the driver is prepared to leave over capacity.

however some people feel about the seatbelt issue is this school bus is a belted bus that means it’s not meant to have standing passengers and thus is over capacity and thus not insured.

I'm in a similar ish position (not as tricky as yours tbh) as my kids are entitled to the bus, but we could technically manage without it (and it ends up making my life much easier than those parents who live right next door to school, never mind those who live 1.9 miles away).

I can see why you'd feel bad about this, but it's really not your problem. Illegally overloading kids onto the bus isn't a solution.

You really need to raise this with Schools transport at County Hall, as they allocate tenders for contracts. Assuming this is a closed doors tender, only children eligible should be travelling. Unfortunate for those that aren't eligible, but that will be the rule and the contractor and the School should be operating in line with this. Kick arses, all of them. I would not allow this to happen as a badged county schools contract driver. If the unthinkable were to happen I could be jailed if found to be culpable. I would not risk overcrowding on a school contract, ever, I grew up at a time we would regularly travel three to a seat, thank God that is not allowed now.

It's not just an accident that could cause injury. The reason that under 14s need to wear seatbelts is because they're so light and not great with balance, so will get flung around even with the bus braking.

You need to raise this, however unpopular it makes you.

Unless laws have changed or have always been different in the part of the UK where you are OP, entitlement to free school transport is based on distance. So the children who are less than the free transport distance should not be travelling by said bus. Maybe if there were empty seats it would be considerate in wet weather, but not at the expense of a child entitled to the place by distance.

Better I think to raise with the local authority who organise school transport. The school is possibly unwilling to upset those parents of children who will in future have to walk.

Approach the Head. It is literally his problem to sort.

You cannot allow children to sit on the bus with no seatbelt for a 40 minute journey regularly!

You cannot pick them up regularly.

The issue is that your children’s seats are being stolen by families that haven’t paid for them. The Head needs to sort it. Tickets/passes being checked when children get on is the usual solution, or a register.

Don’t worry about being the ‘difficult parent’. It’s great being the difficult parent, that means your kids actually get what they’re entitled to.

If you don’t need want to be ‘difficult’ your other option is to be a sucker, and teach your children that when others steal from them, they should do nothing. Is that really what you want to role model?

This sounds like an absolute shitshow. The school and/or bus company should know who is on the bus at all times, for safeguarding reasons. The bus driver should not be picking up more pupils than the legal capacity of the bus, and he/ she should be playing merry hell with their employer for expecting them to carry more passengers than the law allows. The school should have known before you complained (and may well have done) and not be asking the bus company to take more than they are legally allowed to take. The monitor is I presume an adult, and they should have been asking the school to resolve it, too.

The Senior Leadership Team (SLT) at school should be HORRIFIED that this is happening and have stopped it IMMEDIATELY. I'm pretty disgusted that they sound like they have shrugged their shoulders so far.

Busses full of school children can, and do, crash. There have been some devastating news stories I can remember involving child fatalities on busses and coaches. You are absolutely right to be concerned about this, and massive kudos to you for briefing your children as you have done, and to them for being brave enough to follow your instructions, that must not have been easy for them.

You really can't back down now. Stay polite, stay firm, don't take it on as your problem to solve, stay insistent.

One of the many options available to you is to look up your local Multi-Agency Safeguarding Hub (MASH) or equivalent. You can make an anonymous safeguarding report to them, and if they contact the school then in theory the school should jump to it to sort it out.

It's very considerate of you to be thinking about the children who don't qualify for a free lift but who still need transport to school and whose families aren't well off, I can understand that. But the bottom line is that the law is the law for a reason, and in this case it's for children's safety.

Is this in the UK?

Seriously? She says so three times.

Yes in the UK. It is a shit show and I'm getting more and more angry about it. I've found out some more information since I posted. The children involved are refugee children and the reason they're being picked up is because the school has decided that is safer than them walking. We don't live in a dangerous city - I mean really low crime - but they are primary school age so I guess that is young to be walking alone.
But safeguarding!! For all of them! There has to be another solution - and you're all right - it's not my issue to solve!!
I emailed asking for a meeting and have been completely fobbed off. If they don't agree a time with me I'll just turn up at the school tomorrow and wait to be seen. It's a good thing I'm not busy eh (ha! I'm run off my feet!! But now I've opened this can of worms I'm going to have to force the school to deal with it)

Governors. MASH. OFTED. Bus company directly. They can deal with you directly, or you can be a gigantic pain in their ass via many third parties.

How totally irresponsible of the school and what is the bus monitor thinking, they really shouldn’t be doing that job if they’re happy to disregard safety and the law that kids must be strapped in.
it’s the local authority who arrange free school transport- you need to get in touch with them. Do they not issue a bus pass?
schools receive pupil premium for anyone on FSM which they could use to provide safe transport if they wanted to. Or what about a walking bus

Your doing the right thing by approaching the head . Your children are entitled to safe free school transportation and should be given just that .
If the school wish to ensure other children are transported safely to and from school they need to ensure there is enough room for them.
The school needs to pay for an extra coach / mini bus to seat the extra children who they have offered transport to or withdraw the offer.

This ⬆️
You might feel a bit mean to the other kids whose parents live close enough to school that they shouldn’t really be on the bus but if an accident were to happen (God forbid), it doesn’t bear thinking about it. Get it official and documented in writing and then I bet it will be clamped down on. The children who live closer can either walk or a more suitable bus needs to be provided.

Surely the school can get a cost from the bus company for the additional price to always have a large enough bus for the paying kids plus the extra kids. Then pay for the extra kids out of a different budget. Its great that the school are going above and beyond, god knows refugee kids need the support, but it has to be done safely.

Why aren't the parents coming to walk them home?

The school has made this mess and are now expecting you to fix it by picking up your kids, freeing up seats for other kids.

It's illegal what they're doing so they don't have a leg to stand on

Is the bus doing an extra stop, 1.5 miles away? That seems strange as surely the local authority would then become aware?

I’m just staggered that there are school buses with seat belts! Our school buses are the same as public buses, as in the exact same buses that also do public runs out of school pick up/drop off and on weekends. They also are licensed for standing as well as seated passengers and school students are no different here.

However PP is available in England, Scotland, NI and Wales, so OP obviously isn’t in mainland UK, so thats probably what is confusing a few posters.