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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think sex shouldn't be happening here

127 replies

Norestnosanity · 23/01/2023 06:45

I live in the middle flat of a townhouse conversion. The people above me have either laminate or bare floorboards. I have so far put up with the stomping and hearing every drawer open and slam shut. I have put up with the obvious lack of privacy - absolute silence when I'm on the phone and then stomping off when I'm finished, moving when I move etc.

Lately it's got ridiculous imo. Last year summer they came in and had absolutely wild sex with windows open, I could hear every single thing (8pm). I thought it was a mistake, a drunken one night stand and they forgot that we live inside a drum. I snuck out of the room directly below an h

OP posts:
WigglyGlowWorm · 28/01/2023 21:30

I would just move, sounds like this isn’t the property for you.

Chestnutlover · 28/01/2023 21:41

Our neighbours kids play football above us. Drives me insane. And the washing machine every night at 10.30 that wakes my baby up and rattles the walls. After multiple pleads with them to shut up that we’re ignored we’re now moving

SelinaKant · 28/01/2023 21:57

I would move heaven and earth to get out of there. A long time ago, I moved to a Victorian townhouse of converted flats. I lasted a week. The noise was terrible and the people above me very intimidating.

Darlingx · 28/01/2023 22:10

Have to say I had similar its having someone living above u . I could hear phone conversations, TV choice , walking , bath running etc so I always live on the top floor now and also heat travels upwards so its like having underfloor heating. I am considerate though so I wear soft slippers , I don’t flush the toilet at night or use the bath , washing machine, hoover late.
I wear headphones to watch late night stuff and bedroom wise I have soft sponging behind the headboard. So living in flats is not as wild abandon with music and sex as living in a chateau could be 🙈
I had roof repairs done and a team of at least 8 builders were working for months and it really affected me the noise invasion heavy clomping boots and just general disturbance of my nest space so its totally rational to be affected by hearing too much if u get my drift and I do empathise .
If u could move choose to be at the top with noone above u ?

xPissflapsx · 28/01/2023 23:44

Start making really loud sex noises too. If it stops shout "no don't stop, I'm going to cum"
It will hopefully freak them out and they'll stop.

Zvifflemeyer · 29/01/2023 03:46

Sounds like you need to not live in an apartment. Inconsiderate neighbors suck, but talking to them rarely accomplishes anything. You could ask them to be a little more mindful when walking around and opening closing drawers and doors, but I doubt they will. If you can't afford to not live in an apartment, maybe take a top floor unit next time. Expecting someone to not have sex is ridiculous, but so is having sex with the windows open. That sounds like something where police intervention could be appropriate. Disturbing the piece and all. But I also suspect you would get no sympathy or assistance from the cops.

atoxk · 29/01/2023 04:50

Living next to People sucks, even semi detached share a wall and too thin really. Most detached now pay a fortune more but new builds are so on top of each other. Unfortunately if you want privacy you need to save money and move into the woods.

Pinkknits2 · 29/01/2023 06:35

I can be pretty loud. My neighbour just turns his TV up.

Pinkknits2 · 29/01/2023 06:40

Have you spoken to them about the noise? Don't assume they know it's bothering you. As for the sex they can have all the noise sex they like. I have an upstairs neighbour with wood floors who sounds like a heard of elephants but I have noisey sex so it evens out.

JoeBlogger · 29/01/2023 15:37

Buy a hooter and every time you can hear 'marital activities' blow the hooter! You could claim you were doing it to encourage them!

CumoTow · 30/01/2023 15:34

I pray for god to give you the strength you continue, dear. Please understand that every last one of these people who say you are being unreasonable HAS NO CLUE what they are talking about. ONLY when one has suffered this type of antisocial behaviour can one understand the impact is has on one's life.

I know from long personal experience that you are now living in hell on earth. I'm sorry to say that the authorities will do nothing to help you. Housing associations do not care. If you're with Metropolitan Thames Valley Housing I can assure you they are a criminal organisation. Their policy on antisocial behaviour/noisy neighbours is that slamming doors and windows is normal, every day life noise when, in fact, it is, by definition, a deliberate act intended to be noticed by others. Yet MTVH policy is that this behaviour is perfectly normal and acceptable.
If your local environmental health officers are like mine, they too will be of no help. I was given recording equipment to gather evidence of the noise and at least 3 times was told that the week of noises I had recorded had no worked because of equipment failure. On one occasion installing the equipment one of the two officers said, "What's that red light come on for?" and then, "Oh, it's working now". When they finally got some noises recorded they claimed they were too quiet to consider a statutory nuisance i.e. 'it's perfectly fine, nothing to complain about, you're just a complainer'.

Now for some more encouraging news (but Local Environmental Health officers waited 2 years before they thought to tell me): Your health makes no difference to them when assessing a noise nuisance. Their rules are that they must assess what a healthy person would consider 'too noisy'. Thus, your serious need for peace goes totally ignored by the Environmental health officers (so don't get your hopes up that they will be concerned for your health).

However (this is the more encouraging news), court judges are 'far more considerate' if you take your noisy neighbours to court and you will get results relatively quickly. I fought with my 'gangsta' rapping, drug dealing, whooping neighbour and his trollish friends for over two years before I gave up with the landlord, the police, and Environmental health, and took the guy to court. Within 3 months he was out.

So, please call your local court and explain to them that you want to make a claim for a noise abatement order against your neighbours. They will advise you of the steps you will need to take. It isn't very expensive (and since your life is in the balance, it's worth every penny), just a few pounds up front for administration which you can claim back if you win. You will need evidence which you will also need to copy to the noisy neighbours. In my case, I just used a digital camera (which could make short video recordings and so had an internal microphone) which cost under £50, and the recordings were adequate. You will need to compile a diary of incidents to illustrate the length the disturbance has gone on, the times, dates, nature of noises, and how it made you feel. Sadly, you will have to put up with more of the noise for at least another week to get just 1 week of records (but you could make up an entirely fake diary and supplement it with specifics - it's perfectly fair under the circumstances since this is your life you are fighting for*. Once you get your evidence (and make sure you do whatever you need to to get the best recordings e.g. put the recorder right up against the ceiling if necessary) - and don't forget photographs of the flakes of paint falling - and notify them that you are taking them to court, they may stop (although I doubt they will, sadly. The type who do this are arrogant and selfish and think they are in the right.) Also, sadly, getting the noise abatement order may only be the first step as you may have to put up with them breaching the order and you having to record the evidence of this to get them fined. Once they start getting fined, however, they will begin to get the message although, again sadly, they can ignore fines for months and months until bailiffs are sent after them. I hope and prey that it won't come to this.

Many people will advise you to leave but this is unacceptable given that you are the good neighbour and they are, technically, breaking the law in breaching the peace (it's just that the authorities can't or won't do anything to protect you).
Note that they are also violating your basic human right to enjoy your possessions (in your home) in peace (but again, you won't get anyone to fight your fight for you). I've been through it all. Citizen's Advice will just push leaflets into your hands telling you to go to Environmental Health, your local councillors (who have NO powers of enforcement), etc.

*Anyone who thinks I'm being melodramatic about the seriousness of this problem, consider that I'm speaking from person experience and have spoken to many others who have also experienced this and we all agree that before long life becomes literally intolerable until suicide or murder starts to come to mind. I felt variously homicidal towards my neighbour and suicidal. No one can live under these circumstances. Indeed, when, after 10 months, I retaliated against my neighbour he caved in within one month and had Environmental Health out against me (and they issued me a warning that I would be issued a noise abatement order).

God be with you. Having been through this it is my major life concern of what needs to be changed in this awful country of ours.

CumoTow · 30/01/2023 18:16

Pinkknits2 · 29/01/2023 06:40

Have you spoken to them about the noise? Don't assume they know it's bothering you. As for the sex they can have all the noise sex they like. I have an upstairs neighbour with wood floors who sounds like a heard of elephants but I have noisey sex so it evens out.

"they can have all the (sic.) noise sex they like"? Clearly you have no idea of the laws of the land. I presume you're an adult so how did you get to adult age without learning about the concept of 'disturbing the peace'? Disturbing other people is illegal. So no, they can't have all the noisy sex they like since it is disturbing someone.

People like you (and there are plenty in this thread who are no better) are the problem, people who are simply pig ignorant of the fact that they are breaking the law and making someone's life miserable.

CumoTow · 30/01/2023 18:27

It absolutely disgusts me that 73% of people here think you being unreasonable. It's no wonder that people who suffer from nightmare neighbours get so little help or support in society judging from the response here. The idiotic things that people have counter-argued with are themselves irritating to me and I'm not the one suffering the problem.

CumoTow · 30/01/2023 18:42

Norestnosanity · 23/01/2023 08:04

Okay, so you're using a sewing machine for up to 11 hours a day

No, I was quite clear about that. In total 1-3 hours. Not everyday, up to 3 or 3 times a week. I mentioned the time because I think 9pm cut off for loud noises is reasonable and I want to be a considerate neighbour that doesn't wake people up before 10 or after 9.

So you admit that a noisy neighbour issue could drive a person "absolutely, completely, fucking insane" yet you fail to appreciate the severity of this issue for the OP?

Isn't it clear to you from the OP's posts that this issue is much larger than them just having sex noisily? Obviously it isn't! These people are little better than trolls while the OP is a quiet, respectful person suffering ill health.

You lack the basic reasoning skills to have a valid opinion on this matter. The fact that some noises are unavoidable e.g. a sewing machine in use, and some noises can be controlled e.g. sex noises, hasn't even occurred to you. You've made a fool of yourself in completely misinterpreting the OP's words about their sewing, not only got the time spent sewing wrong but entirely missed their point about imposing upon themselves a schedule when doing the sewing might disturb their neighbours, concluding that their neighbours are actually trying to 'get their own back'! 🙄

AuntSallie · 30/01/2023 18:49

I live in the middle flat of a townhouse conversion.

Im afraid that this means there will be zero soundproofing between floors as the townhouse used to be a single home. So it’s not that the people above you are being too noisy, it’s that you’re not in purpose built flats. You could look installing sound proofing on your ceiling.

VanGoghsDog · 30/01/2023 23:49

CumoTow · 30/01/2023 18:16

"they can have all the (sic.) noise sex they like"? Clearly you have no idea of the laws of the land. I presume you're an adult so how did you get to adult age without learning about the concept of 'disturbing the peace'? Disturbing other people is illegal. So no, they can't have all the noisy sex they like since it is disturbing someone.

People like you (and there are plenty in this thread who are no better) are the problem, people who are simply pig ignorant of the fact that they are breaking the law and making someone's life miserable.

Lol!

That's not what disturbing the peace is!

www.findlaw.com/criminal/criminal-charges/disturbing-the-peace.html

It's not illegal to make a noise.

Josette77 · 31/01/2023 00:08

Yerroblemom1923 · 23/01/2023 08:05

I don't understand why they're having noisy sex. Surely that's only in the porn world where women have to pretend to be enjoying it and supposedly prove to be having 50 orgasms in the space of 10 minutes?! Back in the real world most people don't scream and shriek.
If it's a squeaky bed noise maybe leave an oil can outside their door as a subtle hint.

Op you are not unreasonable in how you are feeling. I get it.

The above quote is ridiculous though.
I am loud, and I talk dirty, and i cum a lot. I am not a pornstar, I just love sex. A lot. No shame in that.

Pinkknits2 · 31/01/2023 13:20

Actually I know the law very well as I'm a JP. If it's between 11pm and 7am and measures over 34 decibels then it's considered nuisance noise and the council should be contacted. I'd always say try communicating with the people first though.

Lemuriformes · 31/01/2023 13:39

Talk to them if you can bear it. But if not, as you are both council tenants and the lease does have soundproofing requirements then you can speak to the council about your concern. Record the noise and play it to the housing department. I feel your pain - I was in a purpose built flat and in complete breach of the lease the upstairs neighbour installed laminate flooring directly on the concrete floor. They also had two teenagers and a toddler, and kept their shoes on in the house. The husband coming home late, taking his shoes off in the bedroom and dropping them on the floor woke me up every time. I recorded a bunch of stuff and played it back to them and they were horrified! Sounds like your neighbours aren't that pleasant though, so go to the council.

Norestnosanity · 01/02/2023 10:55

Josette77 · 31/01/2023 00:08

Op you are not unreasonable in how you are feeling. I get it.

The above quote is ridiculous though.
I am loud, and I talk dirty, and i cum a lot. I am not a pornstar, I just love sex. A lot. No shame in that.

No shame in that.

Really? So do you do this with young children in the house? Would it be okay for your (if you have or hypothetical) young children to hear that? If not, why is it not? And why is it okay for my young DC to hear that? If you knew young children were about, would you choose 9am on Saturday to have loud cum a lot sex?

Do you do that when your parents are over? If not, why not? And why is it okay for my parents to hear that when they visit?

Do you do that when your friends are over? If not, why not? And why is it okay for my friends to hear it when they visit?

My DC, my family, my friends, myself shouldn't have to hear 'loud', 'dirty talk' and so on. All my life I've been very positive about sex and nowhere near a prude. But that's always been on the tacit basis that a good sex life doesn't impede on non consenting people around me.

If I wanted to have loud and active sex I would make very sure that, at the absolute least, I put underlay beneath my laminate.

It's fine to have sex and enjoy sex but that should stay between the people having sex. The most neighbours should hear is a squeaky floorboard imo. If they can hear more than that then the hobby should cease until soundproofing has been done. Your desire to have sex doesn't trump others' need and basic human right to sleep.

I understand you were saying I was reasonable to feel the way I do, but the throw away comment about enjoying sex is contradictory and dismissive. Everyone seems to think it's a funny carry on but it's my life.

OP posts:
Norestnosanity · 01/02/2023 11:29

To the people that don't understand how a 200 year old wooden house can shake I invite you to take a friend to an old wooden fence. Stand far away from each other. One of you shakes the fence and see if the other can feel it. The interior walls here are just wood and plasterboard. So if you have a wooden floor attached to a wooden wall, guess what happens when you thump on the floor.

To those that don't understand how carpeting makes a difference - get a drum, bang it, put some fleece on top, bang it again. Imagine living under the drum, do you prefer the sound of the fleece drum or the drum alone?

To those that think I have never lived in a flat and keep telling me to move, please understand, the vast majority of my life I've lived in a flat with people above me. The last time I lived at the top I was in infant school. I have lived in victorian conversions 4 times before iirc. I am used to 'everyday noise' of people above me. I know how to live and adapt to living in a conversion.

However, when someone has chosen to purposefully amplify their 'everyday noise' it is unbearable. Listen to it voca.ro/1j9CFsGg5UNb This is normal everyday walking above me at night. I can't sleep through it even with headphones on. I can't ignore it. It's every few minutes.

And I especially hate it when it's reactive to my sound
Yesterday I opened the door onto something on the floor and it made a bang, it was an accident and not really loud. But the normal footsteps above me turned immediately into stamping. Yesterday I'm on the computer, I can hear chatting above me, I don't mind at all. I sneeze and the chatting stops immediately. I find it creepy to have someone paying attention to my sneezes. It's hard to not jump out of my skin when something is dropped, something really heavy when I walk into a room. It's really hard to ignore. It feels like I have to be careful about the noise I make but I'm not the one with the unsuitable flooring.

To update anyone that is interested and not just taking the mick out of me. I have been trying to fix my floorboards so that I'm not as followed and to try to reduce the sound transmission through the wood I've been putting better underlay under my carpet. I am being followed less but when I was doing DIY with my hand drill and screwdriver the noise above was very reactive and made me very uncomfortable. It was funny the next day when the neighbours to the side started a renovation though, and there was upstairs thinking my DIY was bad enough to get stroppy about. I've also made some cork panels and put them around my bed to try to dampen the sound by my head when I'm sleeping. It works a bit. I've also lined my bedside drawer unit with cork because whenever I shut the drawer at night the man above me walks around the room. I can't afford to sound proof the ceiling. No reply from the council.

The daily mirror may as well get a laugh out of my misfortune, just like most of the people who have replied here, who cares anymore. Haha this woman can't sleep, haha how can wood shake, haha you have to listen to sex noises. 🙄

I see there have been a few more supportive and empathetic replies. I'm so sorry others have been or are going through this too. Thank you for letting me know I'm not alone and being understanding and kind.

Lastly, to the person that is so cheerful about her free underfloor heating. Do one. It already irks the hell out of me that I, a single mother with health issues and reduced earning ability, am subsidising the heating costs of the 4+ adults with no dependents above me. All because they are too cheap/lazy/ignorant to lay suitable flooring. It really is the cherry on top.

OP posts:
CleopatrasBeautifulNose · 03/02/2023 07:05

Oh op ☹️
I really hope things improve. 💔

VanGoghsDog · 04/02/2023 13:16

It's mostly white noise on that recording, would a white noise machine drown it out for you? Have you tried that?

tinatea · 04/02/2023 13:31

I had the same exact thing with my neighbours upstairs. We had a Victorian conversion flat which are known nightmares for hearing everyday sounds.
I feel your pain.
(1) You can complain of unreasonable noise between the hours of 11am - 7am.
(2) Check your lease. Laminate flooring and hardwood flooring in some leases are not permitted in the upstairs flat. This was case with our set up. Upstairs flat could not install hardwood flooring. I was a leaseholder the upstairs neighbour a council tenant so the housing officer got this amended when they got soundproofing installed which the council paid for.

I'm sorry you are going through this. It's horrible.
When I could no longer stand the moaning and thumping of their lovemaking at 3am every other morning I used to shout through the ceiling to hurry up!
That soon threw them off the big finish and would do it quietly from that point. 🫣

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