Page 4 | AIBU to feel that teachers shouldn't really be striking?

Pinky1011 · 2023-01-23T02:47:10+00:00

They have 3 months PAID holidays only work 9-4pm, no dangerous or really bad working conditions, great job security, good pensions, They had pay rises last year up to 8%!!! I work in the private sector and haven't had a pay rise in almost 6 years! I just feel compared to alot of other professions, teachers have it quite good? I mean their starting salary is the same as a junior doctor. I get it inflation has wrecked everyone, but surely the issue should be getting inflation down? Not just demanding for more money, which by the way only fuels inflation further. AIBU to feel that teachers just don't know how good they have it compared to the rest of us?

echt · 23/01/2023 04:20

Interesting you say that teachers are only legally allowed to strike about pay, I didn’t know that and wonder if that’s why the real conversation about conditions is being drowned out by people who compete over how many hours overtime they have to work (teachers and non teachers)

Teachers don't work overtime. You get paid for overtime.

NocturnalClocks · 23/01/2023 04:21

But that's my point, there is no evidence that salary rises drive inflation. It's a fallacy. The causality has always worked the other way around in every study on this that I've seem. Do you have any evidence that salary rises would further increase inflation or exacerbate it? I'd be genuinely interested if you do.

And yes, more funding for schools is needed. As I said I don't work in that sector so I know little about it but I believe there are limited grounds upon which their unions can ballot for a strike so I'm not sure they can legally strike over lack of school funding specifically? Perhaps one of the members of a teachers' union can confirm and enlighten us. But it's fairly apparent that their strike is not just about their pay, the same as with the striking NHS staff.

Original poster

Pinky1011 · 23/01/2023 04:22

@echt I mean strike for the issues that the extra funding is needed for,
Don't strike for more money, because I'm sorry but teaching is not low a paid profession.

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NocturnalClocks · 23/01/2023 04:24

Ah, I see some have already confirmed before I'd finished writing my post that I was correct, they cannot strike about lack of school funding.

So there we are.

We all know they all want that as well as their pay restored to 2010 levels ideally. Wouldn't it be lovely if we could all go back to that time, before the country was decimated by idiots.

Original poster

Pinky1011 · 23/01/2023 04:25

@NocturnalClocks you keep misquoting me, I never once said inflation is caused or is driven by salary increases?

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echt · 23/01/2023 04:26

Pinky1011 · 23/01/2023 04:22

@echt I mean strike for the issues that the extra funding is needed for,
Don't strike for more money, because I'm sorry but teaching is not low a paid profession.

Teachers. Can't. Strike. About. Funding. It. Would. Be. Illegal.

That includes issues attached to funding.

NocturnalClocks · 23/01/2023 04:26

Not just demanding for more money, which by the way only fuels inflation further

NocturnalClocks · 23/01/2023 04:27

I didn't say inflation was CAUSED by higher salaries, only that it doesn't solve the problem and can actually make inflation worse

itsgettingweird · 23/01/2023 04:27

When you actually find out about teachers pay you'd realise you have literally NO idea. And I'm not a teacher.

Fact 1 - they don't get paid holiday for 3 months. They get a salary that reflects their working year.

Fact 2 - they don't work 9-4. They teach 8.30/9 - 3/3.30 and then do all their planning, assessment and writing reports, making resources and referrals to outside agencies.

Fact 3 - they had a small pay rise this year after a pay freeze. That pay rise is coming out of already existing school budgets. It's coming from money allocated to educate our children which is already low. In fact - after years of claiming to raise finding they've finally admitted they've referenced the funding to 2010 levels. So that's 12 years of cutting funding to raise it to a time where inflation is 15% above that and then they expect the teachers to have a pay rise from that money.

Teachers are only allowed to strike for pay. So they have to strike saying what they can.

What they are striking for is our children's education and future. For our children - the future of this country to be provided for educationally.

And the fact they are paid the same as a junior doctor shows how badly underfunded our NHS is too - not that teachers are wrong!

NocturnalClocks · 23/01/2023 04:28

I said pay rises don't solve the inflation issue and there is a POSSIBLITY that it could exasperate it

FlairBand · 23/01/2023 04:29

NocturnalClocks · 23/01/2023 04:09

At the moment, govt pays about 24% salary into a teachers pension each year and teacher pays around 7-10% depending on their pay scale.

That's not entirely true. The teachers' pension scheme is unfunded. No amount is being paid into a pension scheme for them, nothing. All they have effectively is a promise from the Government that they'll be paid something, which we all know isn't worth the paper it's written on because it can and will be changed and downgraded again.

The contribution rates are correct.

You are correct that it’s an unfunded scheme but to imply that the value of 24% annually into a DB pension could be eroded over time to anything comparable to 3% into a DC pot is grossly misleading. I know there have been changes but I really don’t think that in any world it could be argued that they weren’t rational, mostly because the reason that changes We’re introduced we’re to counter the problem of people were living longer… and therefore costing more than was provided for in the scheme.

I really don’t think people appreciate the value of these pensions and how lucky they are to have them, which is why I think they should be brought into the debate.

garlictwist · 23/01/2023 04:30

I think being a teacher is hard work. I wouldn't want to do it. But I do think it's fairly well paid compared to other sectors.

NocturnalClocks · 23/01/2023 04:30

I've reposted your comments about it. I'm asking whether you have any studies that back up those ideas about the causality of inflation? Because even Friedman didn't buy your take on it (the one the UK Government is currently trying to sell).

echt · 23/01/2023 04:31

I really don’t think people appreciate the value of these pensions and how lucky they are to have them, which is why I think they should be brought into the debate.

They are not part of what teachers are striking about, that's why, though I can see why it would be a handy distraction for you.

NocturnalClocks · 23/01/2023 04:31

You are correct that it’s an unfunded scheme but to imply that the value of 24% annually into a DB pension could be eroded over time to anything comparable to 3% into a DC pot is grossly misleading

Ypu must be getting posts confused. I never said anything like that, at all. That sounds bonkers.

Original poster

Pinky1011 · 23/01/2023 04:31

@NocturnalClocks yes?? I didn't say it was causing inflation which you keep saying I said and asking me to provide evidence for. I said it could make it worse. As in adding fuel to the fire. I did not say it will definitely make it worse and it has been proven bla bla. I said it doesn't solve the issue and could possibly exasperate it if the ACTUAL issue of inflation is dealt with. Saying something COULD exasperate an existing issue is very different to saying something CAUSED or is driving that issue.

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FlairBand · 23/01/2023 04:32

echt · 23/01/2023 04:20

Interesting you say that teachers are only legally allowed to strike about pay, I didn’t know that and wonder if that’s why the real conversation about conditions is being drowned out by people who compete over how many hours overtime they have to work (teachers and non teachers)

Teachers don't work overtime. You get paid for overtime.

Go preach to the 99% of teachers who call it that then, I’m interested in the bigger picture not the point scoring

echt · 23/01/2023 04:33

FlairBand · 23/01/2023 04:32

Go preach to the 99% of teachers who call it that then, I’m interested in the bigger picture not the point scoring

Show quote history

Overtime is a fact,

NocturnalClocks · 23/01/2023 04:33

Pinky1011 · 23/01/2023 04:31

@NocturnalClocks yes?? I didn't say it was causing inflation which you keep saying I said and asking me to provide evidence for. I said it could make it worse. As in adding fuel to the fire. I did not say it will definitely make it worse and it has been proven bla bla. I said it doesn't solve the issue and could possibly exasperate it if the ACTUAL issue of inflation is dealt with. Saying something COULD exasperate an existing issue is very different to saying something CAUSED or is driving that issue.

I think you mean exacerbate.

Do you have any evidence to suggest that it would do so?

echt · 23/01/2023 04:34

Pinky1011 · 23/01/2023 04:31

@NocturnalClocks yes?? I didn't say it was causing inflation which you keep saying I said and asking me to provide evidence for. I said it could make it worse. As in adding fuel to the fire. I did not say it will definitely make it worse and it has been proven bla bla. I said it doesn't solve the issue and could possibly exasperate it if the ACTUAL issue of inflation is dealt with. Saying something COULD exasperate an existing issue is very different to saying something CAUSED or is driving that issue.

You still haven't provided any evidence other than your "thinks" for anything you've asserted so far.

OxanaVorontsova · 23/01/2023 04:36

itsgettingweird · 23/01/2023 04:27

When you actually find out about teachers pay you'd realise you have literally NO idea. And I'm not a teacher.

Fact 1 - they don't get paid holiday for 3 months. They get a salary that reflects their working year.

Fact 2 - they don't work 9-4. They teach 8.30/9 - 3/3.30 and then do all their planning, assessment and writing reports, making resources and referrals to outside agencies.

Fact 3 - they had a small pay rise this year after a pay freeze. That pay rise is coming out of already existing school budgets. It's coming from money allocated to educate our children which is already low. In fact - after years of claiming to raise finding they've finally admitted they've referenced the funding to 2010 levels. So that's 12 years of cutting funding to raise it to a time where inflation is 15% above that and then they expect the teachers to have a pay rise from that money.

Teachers are only allowed to strike for pay. So they have to strike saying what they can.

What they are striking for is our children's education and future. For our children - the future of this country to be provided for educationally.

And the fact they are paid the same as a junior doctor shows how badly underfunded our NHS is too - not that teachers are wrong!

Exactly this 👏🏼

Original poster

Pinky1011 · 23/01/2023 04:38

@OxanaVorontsova

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FlairBand · 23/01/2023 04:39

echt · 23/01/2023 04:31

I really don’t think people appreciate the value of these pensions and how lucky they are to have them, which is why I think they should be brought into the debate.

They are not part of what teachers are striking about, that's why, though I can see why it would be a handy distraction for you.

Your pension is part of your pay. It should be part of the discussion.

It is misleading to complain about pay whilst not talking about around a quarter of your pay (which becomes equivalent to more like 2/3 of your pay by the time you reach retirement)…. That the people you are comparing yourself to don’t get.

echt · 23/01/2023 04:42

Your pension is part of your pay. It should be part of the discussion

Teachers don't get to make the rules. Ask Rishi.

It is misleading to complain about pay whilst not talking about around a quarter of your pay (which becomes equivalent to more like 2/3 of your pay by the time you reach retirement)…. That the people you are comparing yourself to don’t get

See above.

coodawoodashooda · 23/01/2023 04:48

LokiCokey · 23/01/2023 03:03

There is a shortage of teachers, so as you think it's so amazing I suggest you sign up...

getintoteaching.education.gov.uk

This